41–50 of 154 posts
Well I didn't know that we were going to link straight up propaganda here in HN. I wonder how much time until we bring Sputnik and RT. For those who didn't know this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_News_Agency It has very close ties with Carles Puigdemont, which has been his director once.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many alleged reasons why some people from Catalonia want to secede from Spain. They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. Similar to Brexit. Probably, same wrong perspective. Irrespective of this, Spanish Constitution has a very strong enforcement of Spain's sovereignty and unity. It belongs to all Spanish people. So if that is to be al…
They could have gone the legal route, and push to amend the constitution first. Not doing so shows the manipulative/dishonest nature of the leaders.
There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution.
- They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth
- They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen.
- They do not accept the authority of the government of Spain, and therefore also not the constitution.
Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…
It's something similar to north/south Italy: they are tired of sharing their monies with the poorer regions of Spain, which they regard as lazy and stupid.
While money is an important factor (obviously) it's framed in completely different manner: former italian Lega Nord independentism is based on feeling/being superior on both the work & money side. And in fact Lega (Nord) was and it's still a right-wing, racist and xenophobic party. OTOH the independentist parties in Catalonia were basically left-wing (and now they cover almost all of the spectrum), and the economic side is more on the "we get +50% of our money out and what comes back cannot even cover the most basic needs". Having said that, there are obviously Catalans on the pro-independence side that can just be Lega Nord supporters. But the funny thing is that there are lots of Spaniards/Catalans against independence that can be Lega Nord supporters as well.
Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
They could have gone the legal route, and push to amend the constitution first. Not doing so shows the manipulative/dishonest nature of the leaders.
Your reply shows your manipulative and dishonest nature. There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution. - They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth - They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen. - They do not accept the authority of the gov…
The Spanish constitution says that the country includes Catalonia and that the State must defend the country integrity.
Modify the constitution by democracy if you don't like it, but stop promoting undemocratic and unconstitutional ideas.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just Spain not EU. It's the typical second biggest city not having internal relevance compared to the capital even though it's as good, together with the common claim of everything happens in the capital, decisions are there, most money stays there, etc. Also, it's slightly different culture, language, etc. And around WW2 time, there was an actual civil war. Discontent keeps happening, catalonian patriots gets in pow…
Ok the catalans may be arrogant, but did something significantly change in recent years? Usually these bravado-led movements are a result of stagnant economy like in Italy.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just Spain not EU. It's the typical second biggest city not having internal relevance compared to the capital even though it's as good, together with the common claim of everything happens in the capital, decisions are there, most money stays there, etc. Also, it's slightly different culture, language, etc. And around WW2 time, there was an actual civil war. Discontent keeps happening, catalonian patriots gets in pow…
Ok the catalans may be arrogant, but did something significantly change in recent years? Usually these bravado-led movements are a result of stagnant economy like in Italy.
Besides that, I don't think that there was anything big, it's just with the rise of things like populism and patriotism, it's normal for these movements to rise as well, as they already existed. It was just short of some leaders, and opportunity.
The secession of Catalonia actually appeals to me, but these seems more manipulation by their charismatic leader than an actual resolve. They could do it slowly building the movement and trying to amend the constitution. No rush. Rushing was just trying to get more money which got over their heads as the support and reaction was bigger than expected.
So, will Streisand Effect manifest? I think it already is.
I presume the secessionists are actually a minority. The effect is already in full force
I've got a colleague in Catalonia. At the time of the referendum, he was working here in the UK, and he went back to vote in the attempted referendum; and he participated in the general strike a few weeks ago after the sentencing of the leaders who ran the referendum.
He's a level-headed, laid-back kind of guy, not at all the type that gets worked up and inflamed over trifles. If he's upset enough at Madrid to participate in this, I think Madrid are the bad guys here. I don't think he necessarily wants to secede per se, but from his perspective they've basically tried everything else.
Well I didn't know that we were going to link straight up propaganda here in HN. I wonder how much time until we bring Sputnik and RT. For those who didn't know this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_News_Agency It has very close ties with Carles Puigdemont, which has been his director once.