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Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

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Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#451
Keyword "Terrorism" is a backdoor used by some to pervert law based democratic systems.

GitHub should ask further information regarding this statement: '''Tsunami Democratic has been confirmed as a criminal organization driving people to commit terrorist attacks. Tsunami Democratic's main goal is coordinating these riots and terrorist actions by using any possible mean'''

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#452
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from The question is if a democracy can be called democratic if it's impossible/unlawful for minorities to secede. I also think that a secession wouldn't be the smartest choice, but that's a totally different matter. A functional democracy implies that the whole has to arrange itself democratically with the parts it consists of, if not it ri…

It's neither impossible nor unlawful though, they just need the rest of the country to agree with them leaving. The fascist dictator who formed modern Spain made it so its constituent lands can expel a part of it but no one part of it can choose to leave. This is the root of why the procés is illegal, and why they are being charged as violent agitators. They are seen as young kids trying to leave their parent's house…

Not to mention the current Prime Minister (he's only PM because the support of the pre-independence parties) dragged his feet for months instead of start discussing a federal Spanish state or some other solution. Radio silence until the procés.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#453
post #413
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to try and call someone out, you have to be held to the same regard. Regarding the libraries comment, it happens plenty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_destroyed_libraries#Hu... GP may be a bit verbose and dramatic, but the parallels between the Inquisition (a form of censorship) and current events happening in the same geographical location seem to be quite appropriate. He also brings up China…

He brings in the Spanish Inquisition because it seems to portray the Catalans at the right side of history. > Regarding the libraries comment, it happens plenty Plenty? It happens, yes, but it is not just governments: individuals organize book burnings, authors too: Vergilius wanted to burn his Aeneis. Meanwhile, the RC church had another tool (the Index), and almost no government burns libraries. I think even the Na…

If we are talking about electronic libraries, the governments burn plenty of these all the time.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#454
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the EU this is an internal matter, plus, most of the countries of the EU have regions with similar intentions (of secession), it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Plus new state members of the EU have to be approved by every current member IIRC.

The EU is absolutely happy to interfere with internal matters when it suits them, to a huge degree. Look at how they have been treating Poland and its reforms of its court system. Or look at how the EU is trade sanctioning Switzerland due to a dispute over Swiss internal working regulations. The Commission is all about "European values" and how they're going to impose penalties when a country is doing something unali…

>Or look at how the EU is trade sanctioning Switzerland due to a dispute over Swiss internal working regulations.

The Swiss aren't in the EU.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#455
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the time, yes. Not always. In this case, hopefully not.

Trust me, in this case will be war At difference than Norway, there is a silent majority in Catalonia that is fuming. They had being opressed in the last decades by separatism. Now they can't exit home without finding a burning barricade and the pavement vandalised, can't go to work without finding the highway blocked by a group of clowns sit singing kumbaya, can't enter in the university without the permit of masked…

All of these things sound horrible, as do the people doing them.

Why do you insist on keeping people who feel that way in the country, against their will?

It's something that often puzzles me against political stances that oppose separatism. Often, they both express contempt for the people who want to leave, while at the same time, not allowing them to.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#456
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not the government but the judicial authorities, we have distribution of power. It's embarrassing that the title is intentionally misleading.

I specifically said regardless of the branch (I wrote regardless of whom) of government it is embarassing. A free people should have the right to protest. If this is aiding terrorism that is a whole other boat.

I think in some languages the word for "government" is used to refer to the executive branch or its head more directly, whereas in English it's often used to refer to its multiple branches.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#457

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

I'd like to point out that most of the demonstrations where there's been problems (I think calling them violent is an exageration, and also its origin is largely disputed as many blame the police) have nothing to do with Tsunami Democràtic.

Tsunami Democràtic's goal is to encourage and coordinate massive civil disobedience and protests, and that's what they've done so far. Their app even has a check box about non-violence you are forced to to log in. It's hard to imagine how they came to the conclusion that this is a terrorist organization except if you take into account the political views of the Spanish government and all its branches and Tsunami Democràtic.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#458
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they see this people is using P2P technology which is almost impossible to control, so they use all legal means at their disposal. I'm not a legal expert but I'd bet that going through the terrorism route is the only way they have to do something about it. Framing it another way they're using trumped up terrorism charges to invoke powers that were not meant to be used against protests. Police powers are intenti…

This is a fundamental question any government or citizenry has to ask itself: Under what circumstances, if any, should the police stand down?

In theory, it's an easy question: when nobody's natural rights are being violated, police should not intervene. In practice, of course, no police force ever limits themselves to that, so the question becomes - how much the citizens would agree to tolerate and under which sauce? Experience shows, that the first is "a lot" and the second is "depending on how much you scare them, if you are good at scaring, you can pull off practically anything".

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#459

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> but its nothing new

It's nothing new but we're getting more and more of it, and if before it was Russian where one doesn't expect much and China where one doesn't expect anything, now it's a EU member country. Pretty soon there would be no country where software freedom still exists. Maybe there isn't already (US banned CAD files that describe weapons, for example). That's sad development.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#460
post #434
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Catalans never voluntarily agreed to be part of Spain as far as I know. They were essentially annexed a long time ago. When did that happen?

Most regions on Spain had independent laws up to ~1700. While they belonged to the same Kingdom, they kept some independence. That level of independence was erased after a secession war that started on 1700, and ended with some decrees (Nueva Planta decrees, 1716 for Catalonia) that removed some "furs" and constitutions (not only in Catalonia, but everybody that supported the Hamburg's successor). And this was done u…

It’s a bit misleading to say that Catalonia (along with other regions) was “essentially annexed” by Spain three centuries ago when it had been already be part of Spain for two centuries already. Since the very creation of the Kingdom of Spain. (It’s true that it tried to secede in 1640-1652 but the result was the loss of its northern territories to France. By the way, Napoleon would actually annex Catalonia to France later.)

Anyway, they level of independence that Catalonia has had in the last decades is much higher that before that “annexion”.

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