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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#351

Post by lukifer »

hutzlibu wrote: post #287
cwkoss wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Epstein, it appears that NY Dept of Corrections and the coroner must both be colluding to make the suicide narrative plausible. There must be some level of coordinated pressure exerted on both of these offices for neither to highlight the inconsistencies. What would be more concerning: a governmental agency or a non-governmental organization having this kind of power?

"What would be more concerning: a governmental agency or a non-governmental organization having this kind of power?" If there is such a organisation, then it certainly would be not either private or government, but both connected.

This is the crux of it; inevitably, government institutions and individuals in important positions are perfectly capable of quietly trading favors and taking action off-books. And in the other direction, private citizens and groups can have pressure applied on them, directly or indirectly, by mechanisms of government.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#352

Post by im3w1l »

542458 wrote: post #34
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Dr. Michael Baden, one of the world’s leading forensic pathologists, viewed Jeffrey Epstein’s body and was present at the autopsy, which was held the day after Epstein was found dead at the notorious Metropolitan Correctional Center in downtown Manhattan. It looks like he was at least present at the autopsy

You're right, I was incorrect there - I was confused because he wasn't on the medical team for the autopsy. Looks like he was there as an observer, being paid by Epstein's family - which also introduces a fairly significant conflict of interest.

Ok here's a question to chew on. Why would the Epstein family pay to have a pathologist of their own be present? That has to be unusual?

Either: They want the truth or they want to distort the truth.

In the first case: Why don't they trust the state?

In the second: Why do they want to falsely make it to look like a murder?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#353

Post by AndrewBissell »

adamredwoods wrote: post #262
dnate wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any sources on that?

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-dies-...

All I see is this:

"The Washington Post reported that 'at least one camera in the hallway outside the cell where authorities say registered sex offender Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself earlier this month had footage that is unusable' and that it is 'unclear whether the flaw in the taping affected a limited duration of the footage or whether it was a chronic problem in the beleaguered Manhattan facility.' "

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#354

Post by shsjxjbsbs »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #335
shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you see people expressing an opinion that’s useful for the rich and powerful, it’s appealing to imagine that the people expressing that opinion are shills. But I think saying such out loud lowers the quality of discourse. If we go around accusing one people we disagree with of being shills, we aren’t learning or participating in an exchange of ideas, which is the point of a discussion forum like this. There’s a pe…

There's a middle ground between shills and honest sincerely held beliefs: that of the useful idiot [1]. Those are people who have been manipulated by real shills to sincerely advocate for the shill's ideas. Real shills usually don't have the resources get the results they want on their own, so their goal is to create useful idiots to magnify their efforts. It's not necessarily relevant to this case, and I agree that…

I think it’s interesting to look at the patterns of historical usage mentioned in the wiki. The phrase always originates with an accusation by party A that party B calls party C useful idiots, but there’s never any evidence backing up the accusation against party B. To me it just seems like a condescending way of dismissing party C - essentially an argument meant to invalidate popular support for party B. It’s not necessarily wrong, but I think without evidence it’s essentially a tactic for party A to deal with the cognitive dissonance arising from their distaste for party B combined with party C’s support for party B.

Now I’m getting in the weeds and questioning the motivations of party A. I suspect this might make party A feel the way party C does when people call them “useful idiots”. And perhaps it demonstrates how this line of questioning is an endless rabbit hole.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#356

Post by topmonk »

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #250
jermaustin1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were cameras disabled???

Yes, both cameras that watched the cell and hallway outside it had "technical difficulties" and there was no recoverable footage around the time of Epstein's death.

The camera showing the hallway outside his cell was working, and showed no one leaving or entering during the time period of his death.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#357

Post by AndrewBissell »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #301
mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

In 2018, Britain refused to extradite a guy to the US because he would have been held in either this prison or it's Brooklyn equivalent (the one where prisoners were left without heat or electricity in the storm this year), and they said it was too likely that he would commit suicide given the terrible conditions and lack of care ( https://gothamist.com/news/prisoners-endure-a-nightmare-gula... ). Guards at this pris…

What is "ignorant" is pointing to the prison conditions of the poor and relatively unknown mass of prisoners and then asserting that we should have expected the same thing for Jeffrey Epstein. He was worth hundreds of millions of dollars (allegedly, at least), and when people of that level of wealth are imprisoned at all, it is at some Club Fed facility where they're relatively comfortable and well protected. In fact, we already have an example of how people like Jeffrey Epstein are usually treated in federal prison, because he himself served a stint in one after his 2008 plea deal, and it was nothing like the parade of horrors we are now constantly told is just par for the course for prisoners like him.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#358

Post by slimed »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #337
slimed wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. They are used to it. They're also used to preventing suicides. There has only been one other successful suicide in that facility in the four decades it has existed. Why now? Coincidence?

Because he is the 20th prisoner in federal custody to commit suicide in a year? Because people routinely kill themselves even in supermax jails? Because 4-5 people attempt suicide in that prison every year and it'd be even more surprising if they were perfect at preventing it? Because they weren't allowed to hire new staff since Sessions froze hiring in 2017, until April, and their staffing levels went well down over…

Nice edit

Edit: I don't debate publicly with those who change their arguments after posting and don't call it out

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#359

Post by topmonk »

tmn wrote: post #229
moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

Interesting how Oswald was murdered. And then the murderer conveniently died of cancer soon after. Also interesting how that plot has been made out to be this big mystery with every which way being considered, except for an internal job. The patterns are getting pretty clear now

Every which way is considered because that's what humans do. Everyone wants to be the guy who came up with an original theory to show how clever they are.

Your vague “internal job” accusation is no exception to this.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#360

Post by AndrewBissell »

romwell wrote: post #319
cc81 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

>What if it just was a suicide? It makes absolutely no difference. The only thing they had to do was to keep him alive, and given his health, it was not a hard thing to do. If there were no benefactors, it would've been criminal incompetence. As it stands, incompetence is as likely as if he got killed by an anvil falling from the sky. To paraphrase: it's as if I gave you a new iPhone to keep for a day, and you return…

Funny to see this comment getting downvoted when it really gets to the heart of the issue: keeping Epstein alive was crucial to the cause of justice, everyone knew this and that many powerful people had a huge stake in having him silenced, so even if it was suicide his death was willfully facilitated.
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