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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#221

Post by xvector »

ScottFree wrote: post #168
air7 wrote: post #165

I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories and am a firm advocate for Hanlon's razor but this story is really hard to swallow. This is the passage from the relevant Wikipedia article: > The jail informed the Justice Department, when Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, that he would have a cellmate and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night he di…

> I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories I do. How many "conspiracy theories" have we lived through in tech? I can name two right off the top of my head: prism and carnivore. Whenever there's an overwhelming chorus of "that's conspiracy theory!" what I hear is "don't look too closely! You might find something!"

How many times do people need to be hit over the head with conspiracy "theories" to realize that many of them are startlingly close to reality?

The inability of most people to read between the lines baffles me. It's not that hard, especially for an adult with even the barest understanding of the concepts of nuance and subtlety.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#222

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #201

The most frustrating part is how blatant and in-your-face the excuses have been and how many media outlets just seem to accept what they're told and run with it without question. Just look at the responses we've been given to various questions (paraphrased, of course): Q: "How could he have committed suicide, wasn't he on suicide watch?" A: "Oh, well he was taken off suicide watch shortly before he committed suicide"…

Plus the motivations of those implicated, if you're Prince Andrew, a Saudi Royal, or a Soviet Bloc oligarch you're just going to sit there and accept consequences?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#223

Post by parrellel »

LinuxBender wrote: post #177
EasyTiger_ wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who thought this were widely scorned as “conspiracy theorists”.

I pay close attention to the "nutters" and "conspiracy theorists". A great way to hide something big in plain sight is to let someone that is unstable see 1/8th of your secret. They will conflate other things into it and sound totally loony, thus invalidating any discussion about your evil plans by anyone, as they will be associated with the unstable person. I am not going to name names, as that would be inappropriat…

Which would be why the CIA under Johnson came up with the idea. Keep all the undesirable thought together and let it eat itself getting stranger and less palatable all the way.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#224

Post by thaumaturgy »

commandlinefan wrote: post #143

When Edward Snowden “revealed” that the NSA had been spying on us for decades, I was shocked that anybody was shocked. After all, we’ve known that for a long time - people had been SAYING that for a long time. I realized after the Snowden leaks that most people actually thought they were joking when they said that the NSA was spying on all of us: “har har, as if that could ever happen”. It’s become increasingly clear…

So, I was one of the people who read a lot about purported state surveillance before Snowden, and was still "shocked" by what he revealed. It's simple really: while Slashdot commenters et al had been murmuring about Echelon and the NSA for years already, there was no evidence, and therefore no way to sort out the fantasy from the reality.

The shocking part was (a) that the reality turned out to be even more pervasive than the fantasy in some respects; (b) that the details had remained a secret for so long (which is a surprising counterpoint to the whole "governments aren't good at keeping secrets" thing); (c) that it was leaked at all given the first two points; and (d) that any backlash against it all was so milquetoast.

All of this shifted some pretty fundamental stuff in my worldview and the way I regard conspiracy theories. I'm still skeptical of them, by default, but now only because I think that's a necessary blockade against insanity, not because widespread government secret-keeping is implausible.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#225

Post by Matticus_Rex »

jdoliner wrote: post #153
542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

The jail that Epstein died in has had one other suicide in the past 40 years. They haven't actually lost someone to suicide 21 years, despite several attempts. They're not incompetent at all at preventing their inmates from committing suicide. So no, the statement that suicide is made practically impossible there isn't based on wrong assumptions, it's very well supported by statistics. Source: https://www.foxnews.com…

Ehhh, sample size and base rate issues make me question "very well supported by statistics," but it's certainly an argument to the contrary.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#226

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

cwkoss wrote: post #209
remarkEon wrote: post #151

If Epstein was about to testify against the Mob and not about expose wealthy elites and politicians I doubt any of you in this thread would discount, at all, that he was “whacked”. There’s something really gross about how his proximity to power that we, ostensibly, “like” is decreasing our collective likelihood to state the obvious.

Any evidence it was the Mob he was going to testify against? I have seen a lot more speculation that he would reveal his cooperation with state intelligence agencies.

They are saying that if he were about to testify against John Gotti no one in this thread would doubt that it was a hit.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#227

Post by dnate »

tootie wrote: post #162
raxxorrax wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two broken cameras must have been incompetent as well then. Not suggesting a conspiracy, but I wouldn't call it that anyway. Maybe it was just a crime.

From what I've read, the two broken cameras story is just that "two of the many cameras in the area" were broken. At least one camera was actively recording the area outside his cell and they have the footage and it doesn't show anything interesting.

any sources on that?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#228

Post by FillardMillmore »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #222
FillardMillmore wrote: post #201

The most frustrating part is how blatant and in-your-face the excuses have been and how many media outlets just seem to accept what they're told and run with it without question. Just look at the responses we've been given to various questions (paraphrased, of course): Q: "How could he have committed suicide, wasn't he on suicide watch?" A: "Oh, well he was taken off suicide watch shortly before he committed suicide"…

Plus the motivations of those implicated, if you're Prince Andrew, a Saudi Royal, or a Soviet Bloc oligarch you're just going to sit there and accept consequences?

All the players involved kind of add a cover for any nefarious actors. There's so many people involved and so many people that would have motivation to order a hitjob that trying to determine who would be behind such a thing would be at best a wild guessing-game.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#229

Post by tmn »

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

Interesting how Oswald was murdered. And then the murderer conveniently died of cancer soon after. Also interesting how that plot has been made out to be this big mystery with every which way being considered, except for an internal job. The patterns are getting pretty clear now

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#230

Post by blotter_paper »

x220 wrote: post #38
yowlingcat wrote: post #24

To not make a snippy comment about the media treatment about it because that would be tiring, I'd like to instead draw an imperfect parallel to narcopolitics in Latin America. Kingpins from El Chapo to Escobar were notorious for getting away with just about anything, the former for his tunnel and the latter for actually dropping bombs. For a lot of folks on the other side of the border, perhaps they thought it was so…

I'd like to remind people that "conspiracy theory" was a propaganda term coined and spread by the CIA in order to discredit people skeptical of the United States.

Coined, no; the term dates back to at least 1870 in a non-political context,[0] and I believe there's a documented use in a political context by 1890. Spread, yes, especially in via the document "Countering Criticisms of the Warren Report"[1] which used the term "conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorist" whilst instructing agents "To employ propaganda assets to [negate] and refute the attacks of the critics" (though that document did not directly instruct agents to use the term).

[0]: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VsRMAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22consp...

[1]: http://www.jfklancer.com/CIA.html

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