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Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

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Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#171

Post by rndgermandude »

cfv wrote: post #101
deltron3030 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from The question is if a democracy can be called democratic if it's impossible/unlawful for minorities to secede. I also think that a secession wouldn't be the smartest choice, but that's a totally different matter. A functional democracy implies that the whole has to arrange itself democratically with the parts it consists of, if not it ri…

It's neither impossible nor unlawful though, they just need the rest of the country to agree with them leaving. The fascist dictator who formed modern Spain made it so its constituent lands can expel a part of it but no one part of it can choose to leave. This is the root of why the procés is illegal, and why they are being charged as violent agitators. They are seen as young kids trying to leave their parent's house…

>It's neither impossible nor unlawful though, they just need the rest of the country to agree with them leaving.

Why do they need the approval of people living elsewhere?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#172

Post by couchand »

swebs wrote: post #51
pmarin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not the government but the judicial authorities, we have distribution of power. It's embarrassing that the title is intentionally misleading.

>A government is the system or group of people governing an organized community, often a state.[1] >In the case of its broad associative definition, government normally consists of legislature, executive, and judiciary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government

You are quoting from the English-language Wikipedia.

Contrast that with [0], which states "El Gobierno es el principal pilar del Estado; ... ejercicio del poder ejecutivo del Estado", the latter of which links to [1], which clarifies, "el poder ejecutivo es una de las tres facultades y funciones primordiales del Estado".

[0]: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobierno

[1]: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poder_ejecutivo

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#173

Post by hummel »

mindB wrote: post #156

Github will not be shutdown over any action they do or do not take in Spain. The worst that can happen to Github is that they are prevented from doing business in Spain. Given how strongly Spain has come down against freedom of expression on the Catalonia issue, Github is making it very clear by taking this action that freedom of expression is not one of their values. Let me repeat, Spain has come down hard enough ag…

Watching your Github profile I see you are from the US, time to get back to history classes and time to fight for the freedom of expression on your own country, which is ranked on 49 on Press Freedom Index 2019 https://rsf.org/en/ranking next to Senegal and Romania.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#174

Post by braythwayt »

hummel wrote: post #168
mindB wrote: post #156

Github will not be shutdown over any action they do or do not take in Spain. The worst that can happen to Github is that they are prevented from doing business in Spain. Given how strongly Spain has come down against freedom of expression on the Catalonia issue, Github is making it very clear by taking this action that freedom of expression is not one of their values. Let me repeat, Spain has come down hard enough ag…

There is no Catalonia issue and you have plenty of freedom to express yourself wherever you want. We must remember that Catalonia has already held two legal referendums, where the result has been a refusal of the Catalan people to leave Spain or Independence. Apart from not having any historical reason for independence, it is very funny how you talk about a lack of freedom of expression in a country that has suffered…

"There is no Catalonia issue"

I beg your pardon, are you gaslighting Hacker News?

I saw videos of protests. Were those fake?

I have friends from Catalonia who tell me there is an issue. Are they lying to me?

Whether you agree that Catalonia should leave Spain or not, whether you agree that Spain should jail the leaders of a movement to leave Spain or not, there clearly is an issue. There clearly is some dissent, some controversy, something going on.

As for referendums... Seems to me there was a referendum a while back, and the vote was declared illegal. I saw video of law enforcement preventing people from voting.

Was that fake? if not, do you count it amongst your evidence of the people of Catalonia refusing to leave Spain?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#175

Post by kuroikyu »

mihemihe wrote: post #165

Don't get the wrong message because they use the term Democratic and play being the victims. Majority of people in Catalonia do not support secession. Those are the real victims, the 50%-ish which are silent, and suffering every day not being able to declare in public their love for their country, Spain and Catalonia, their region. They used this app to organize violent riots, taking advantage of the pacifist demonst…

> They used this app to organize violent riots, taking advantage of the pacifist demonstrations organized by the pro-secession political parties.

They also used this app to organize non-violent protests, but why say that when you can tell half the truth to tell your story? I'm sure Whatsapp, Telegram, Messenger good ol' SMS were used to organize violent riots, but we won't close those right? I'm sorry but your argument is as week or worse than the one used to take down HK's map.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#176

Post by tgv »

kragen wrote: post #42

Governments† burn libraries. Don't create central points of vulnerability to coercion. That multiplies the effectiveness of coercive force. Create decentralized systems. Git, not GitHub. Bitcoin, not Citibank. Email, not Gmail — although we still need to free email from DNS. Never forget how the Spanish Inquisition — the origin, in the West, of these sorts of degraded "laws" against "criminal content" — treated the J…

What's the Spanish Inquisition got to do with this? Are they in your reply because of the word "Spanish", as in "the union between the people of Arragon, Castille and the very same Catalunya, who (re)conquered the Iberian peninsula?"

> governments burn libraries

Not really.

> Catalan separatists are ... pedophiles

Is there really anyone who said so? Or are we a bit hyperbolical today?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#177

Post by pojntfx »

hummel wrote: post #173
mindB wrote: post #156

Github will not be shutdown over any action they do or do not take in Spain. The worst that can happen to Github is that they are prevented from doing business in Spain. Given how strongly Spain has come down against freedom of expression on the Catalonia issue, Github is making it very clear by taking this action that freedom of expression is not one of their values. Let me repeat, Spain has come down hard enough ag…

Watching your Github profile I see you are from the US, time to get back to history classes and time to fight for the freedom of expression on your own country, which is ranked on 49 on Press Freedom Index 2019 https://rsf.org/en/ranking next to Senegal and Romania.

[flagged]

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#178

Post by tbatchelli »

hummel wrote: post #168
mindB wrote: post #156

Github will not be shutdown over any action they do or do not take in Spain. The worst that can happen to Github is that they are prevented from doing business in Spain. Given how strongly Spain has come down against freedom of expression on the Catalonia issue, Github is making it very clear by taking this action that freedom of expression is not one of their values. Let me repeat, Spain has come down hard enough ag…

There is no Catalonia issue and you have plenty of freedom to express yourself wherever you want. We must remember that Catalonia has already held two legal referendums, where the result has been a refusal of the Catalan people to leave Spain or Independence. Apart from not having any historical reason for independence, it is very funny how you talk about a lack of freedom of expression in a country that has suffered…

I must have missed something. What are those two legal referendums that you speak of? Also, wouldn't the reasons for independence be up to the citizens? You say there have none...

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#180

Post by enriquto »

gwright wrote: post #107
zentropia wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't try to supress catalan independence, but violence. People on jail are there because they set fires, throw stones to police or hold some explosive substances.

A good example of why I think "terrorist" and "terrorism" communicate almost nothing other than "I think they are the bad guys". That sort of statement is ripe for debate. On the other hand if you say that someone was arrested for arson, assault, or unauthorized possession or explosives then some objective reasoning can sort things out rather than having to fall back on an endlessly subjective debate of what is or is…

The word "violence" has a similar problem in spanish and catalan discourse. It has been used to describe the acts of blocking a street, moving dustbins around, or simply covering your face. The worst perpetrators of this semantic drift turn out to be catalan "extreme" pacifists, who aggressively condemn anybody who does these things in demonstrations. They are mockingly called the "dustbin protection society".
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