Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace • Hacker News Board

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#161

Post by hodgesrm » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

jpgvm wrote: post #95

hodgesrm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as an employment _provider_ I fully agree nomad != remote. I'm actually hesitant to employ nomads if they are likely to move without warning to time zones that aren't convenient for the rest of the team. For example, one of the things that makes distributed teams work is to have a small number of very stable meeting times that remain invariant for long periods of time. The reason is that people need to struc…

I have been on remote teams with 2 different types of coordination. Meeting coordinated, which is usually centered around 1 or 2 weekly meetings when status updates and some amount of discussion of planning occurs. This model works best when a large portion of the team is on the same timezone or there is a physical office somewhere but isn't ideal for nomads or people that are permanently located in an inconvenient t…

I'm definitely open to getting better at this so I'm glad the second model worked for you.

I have run into practical problems with ad-hoc call when working across a lot of time zones (like 10 in our company). It's hard to slot in engineering ad-hoc meetings because the slots are limited to begin with and already used up with other things like talking to customers.

We definitely try to avoid burning people's time. Slack has been helpful for intermittent communication.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#162

Post by Volundr » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 6:27 PM UTC

ben_jones wrote: post #83

EMM_386 wrote: post #13

I am a fully remote worker nowhere near my "office", which is simply where our company is technically HQd. I have never met my boss or any of my coworkers in person. I do highly technical work, on a team that only hires very senior developers who have prior remote work experience. And I can say, it is NOT for everyone. If you do not have a life out of work, if you live alone, if you do not have a good network of real…

Are you me? Some of my personal anecdotes going through the exact same circumstances (I'm also currently applying for dual US/Irish citizenship): 1) I hate working out. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. I have not worked out consistently in the last 12 mo. 2) I hate cooking and cleaning up after cooking. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel better afterwards. I have n…

Working out: If possible I highly advise finding a workout partner. I lift weights with a (now-ex) co-worker, and it makes the workout significantly more enjoyable, and provides motivation to keep me going, even on days he can't make it (don't want to fall behind!).

Alternatively, consider a class. A dance class can be great for both 1 & 7 (note: don't be that guy who hits on every woman in your class, no one likes that guy), but it could be anything, martial arts, gymnastics/ninja warrior, racketball, etc.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#163

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

ben_jones wrote: post #83

EMM_386 wrote: post #13

I am a fully remote worker nowhere near my "office", which is simply where our company is technically HQd. I have never met my boss or any of my coworkers in person. I do highly technical work, on a team that only hires very senior developers who have prior remote work experience. And I can say, it is NOT for everyone. If you do not have a life out of work, if you live alone, if you do not have a good network of real…

Are you me? Some of my personal anecdotes going through the exact same circumstances (I'm also currently applying for dual US/Irish citizenship): 1) I hate working out. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. I have not worked out consistently in the last 12 mo. 2) I hate cooking and cleaning up after cooking. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel better afterwards. I have n…

[deleted]

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#164

Post by lbschenkel » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 6:03 AM UTC

marcoseliziario wrote: post #60

Tempest1981 wrote: post #39

This shocked me: "to encourage wellbeing: 40 days paid vacation per year: True disconnection is fundamental to help people de-stress and recharge." Is this common elsewhere in the world? In the US, it Seems like 10 or 15 days is the norm, and maybe 20 after 5 years. What do the FAANG+ companies offer? Does the 2 months of vacation also contribute to that disconnected feeling, I wonder?

30 days here in brazil per year. No theoretical limits on sick days as long as you're really sick, but after 15 days in the hospital, the government pays you instead of your company (at a progressively reduced scale, of course, if you make lots of money, it is just fair that the government should need to help you less than someone who makes minimum wages).

One thing which is important to clarify is that in Brazil, once you take your vacation, it gets "spent" during the whole period that you are off, including weekends and eventual holidays.

In Europe (or at least a good part of it) vacation is "spent" only on workdays, not weekends or holidays (which is fairer, you wouldn't be working on these days).

So in Sweden, where you get 25 days compared to Brazil's 30, you actually get roughly one week more vacation per year. This is not evident at a first glance just by comparing numbers.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#165

Post by kpennell » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #106

This same old tired story... It turns out happiness takes lot of work. Having a healthy social life takes a lot of trying, failing, and some successes that you cherish. Some people tragically take their co-workers as their friends and the office as their social environment. That's really dangerous. You need to go out there and try, be awkward, fight to make some close friends in the real world. Office drama and venti…

ha, I need to get enough HN points so I can downvote comments like this.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#166

Post by kpennell » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:41 AM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #19

I did work remotely for around 5 years and I loved it. No surprise to me but most people need a village to be happy. That means having neighbours, familiar strangers, a regular routine and social bonds between all of those things. Remote work doesn't isolate you from the village. I think it should be the predominant way of working. It can encourage villages and less commutes. When I worked remotely I found an office…

I like your village point...but of the many remote workers I know, I know none that have this.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#167

Post by kpennell » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 11:17 AM UTC

sweetheart wrote: post #33

There are a lot of very, very good points in this article, but I can’t help disagreeing with the opening, in which the author talks about (or at least quotes Seneca on) the impossibility of making meaningful connections while living abroad and moving around. Moving out of my home country and forcing myself to get comfortable meeting strangers was not only the most important thing I’ve done for myself, but gave me a h…

I hear you and agree and disagree. I've definitely had my life changed by moving/traveling abroad. At the same time, I just kept going and going and now I've spread myself too thin and have acquaintanceships all over.

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#168

Post by viraptor » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #148

viraptor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isolation and depression is due to lacking social skill and not having the drive or insight to develop that skill. You are oversimplifying the issue. Please find some insight that there's more nuance here.

I'm referring to the situation at hand: going remote and finding oneself isolated and depressed. That is, one felt socialized enough in the office but now that they're remote they're isolated and finding the "being remote" as the cause. This clearly means that the core source of socialization (and therefore non-isolation) is that the social group was at the office. People who can develop relationships in a variety of…

I don't mean the issues part, but the "if you have drive and information you can fix social skills". If only it was that easy. Specifically, isolation and lack of motivation are also caused by depression. You're basically recommending "not having depression would really help for your depression".

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#169

Post by cthalupa » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:41 PM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #141

cthalupa wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this comment isn’t born out in reality. Around 30% of marriages in the US are from people who met in the office, plenty of people make life long friends from people they met at work, etc. I’m not saying that should be the primary place you look for friends or an SO, but plenty of people are successful doing it.

It's true that a lot of it happens that way. It's not particularly healthy and has extreme side effects in situations like the one at hand (suddenly moving to full time remote) People should diversify their social life.

So I shouldn't become friends or lovers (when hierarchically/power dynamic appropriate) with people at work just because I might go full remote at some point in the future?

Re: Isolation, anxiety, and depression in the remote workplace

#170

Post by ko5ta » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 1:01 AM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #106

This same old tired story... It turns out happiness takes lot of work. Having a healthy social life takes a lot of trying, failing, and some successes that you cherish. Some people tragically take their co-workers as their friends and the office as their social environment. That's really dangerous. You need to go out there and try, be awkward, fight to make some close friends in the real world. Office drama and venti…

Friendships form in places where you have continuous interactions with people over some common theme... school, soccer, pottery class, church, meetup and... you guessed it, work. It's perfectly normal to connect with people you like at work and create long lasting friendships. There is no rule that states your common ground and interest with people at work has to be work related.