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After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

nytimes.com

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Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#241

Post by james-mcelwain »

sgillen wrote: post #229
james-mcelwain wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an interesting point because this topic has already been studied. Cyclists break traffic laws at roughly the same rates as motorists.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of studies in this area. Do you know of studies that compare breaking traffic laws of cyclists in different countries?

I'm only familiar with the US. If I had to speculate, it's probably better in countries with better bike infrastructure. I know personally I only break traffic laws when I feel it's subjectively safer for me as a cyclist to do so. There is a legal push in some places for the [Idaho stop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop), which seeks to make this behavior legal in the name of safety.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#242

Post by lacampbell »

physguy1123 wrote: post #237
u801e wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn’t do anything when cars decide to park in your bike lane anyways When there's a stopped vehicle in the lane you're in, you can simply check for traffic in the next lane and switch lanes. > your bike lane has maybe a foot clearance to traffic in the other side. You're not restricted to the bike lane if there's an obstruction. > that cars are so much more important than bikes that it’s not car drivers who…

> When there's a stopped vehicle in the lane you're in, you can simply check for traffic in the next lane and switch lanes. > You're not restricted to the bike lane if there's an obstruction. These comments proves my whole second point. If a car were to just park in the car lane because it felt like it, there would be outrage, tickets, and the car would get towed immediately. Nobody would say "no big deal, just chang…

You're arguing past the GP. They're saying "here's some practical tips, in the real world, at this point in space time, to stay safe while riding a bicycle". And you're talking about how that sucks, and it shouldn't have to be that way. Ok right, it shouldn't. But that's how it is. Do you want to ride a bicycle safely or not?

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#243

Post by javagram »

bluejekyll wrote: post #238
mumblemumble wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Chicago it's largely been implemented by placing the bike lane in between on-street parking and the sidewalk, with soft posts and paint separating the parking lane from the bike lane. I've watched people put an impressive amount of effort into delicately navigating between those posts so that they can parallel park their car next to the curb. i.e., in the bike lane.

So more signage and education is needed?

Education probably doesn’t matter. Convenience will always trump education. What would work would be enforcement, if you’re fairly likely to get slammed with a $500 ticket for blocking the lane that will actually stop the behavior.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#244

Post by yellowstuff »

gameswithgo wrote: post #81
wefarrell wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commute on my bike in NYC daily and I am far more terrified of pedestrians and other cyclists than I am of cars. Cars for the most part pay attention and obey traffic rules. Cyclists less so and pedestrians ignore rules entirely and frequently aren't even aware of cyclists.

been a cyclist for a long time, know hundreds of cyclists, you are the first person I've heard say this. If you collide with a pedestrian or cyclist the likely result is an injury, with a car death becomes very likely. Statistics certainly back this up as the vast majority of cyclist deaths are due to vehicle collisons not bike-bike or bike-pedestrian collisions. Are you literally "far more terrified" of pedestrians…

I bike for about 60 minutes in Manhattan most days. I'd guess that I have to slam on my brakes or swerve away from a pedestrian maybe 2-3 times per day on average, usually because they stepped into the bike lane from the sidewalk while looking down at their phones. It's so common it barely registers. While I am very aware of cars, they rarely do anything surprising besides occasionally opening a door into my lane. I've certainly never seen a car go from a dead stop to suddenly darting into my lane against the light, the way pedestrians do. So while I acknowledge that I'm much more likely to be killed by a car, I spend a lot time avoiding pedestrians.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#245

Post by randyrand »

bluntfang wrote: post #224
joegahona wrote: post #31

> The dangers came into focus this year after 25 cyclists were killed on city streets — the highest toll in two decades. The "highest toll in two decades" gives some context, but I wish writers would share ratio metrics rather than absolute numbers in cases like this. I.e. the number of active cyclists on the road might be outpacing the deaths, but we don't know when you just say "25 cyclists were killed in 2019." Al…

Are you saying the value of these cyclist's lives is based on how many cyclists there are?

Don’t be purposely dull. Yes the value of the issue depends on how dangerous bicycling is relative to other things. That’s no surprise. 1:100,000,000 != 1:100

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#246

Post by lonelappde »

javagram wrote: post #243
bluejekyll wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more signage and education is needed?

Education probably doesn’t matter. Convenience will always trump education. What would work would be enforcement, if you’re fairly likely to get slammed with a $500 ticket for blocking the lane that will actually stop the behavior.

Why do you think someone put so much effort into parking "conveniently" instead of misunderstanding what the post is for?

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#247

Post by randyrand »

anonu wrote: post #192

The "horrifying" crash mentioned in the article is indeed horrifying. I bike a lot in NYC (consistently for 10+ years now) and I think I am pretty cautious and defensive. But there's absolutely nothing the guy could have done in the video. I linked it below because its a good reminder that your fate is never 100% in your hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0kqsUnpGlU

I purposely avoid intersections on big streets and go round about. That’s the one thing in your hands. The intersections of big roads are always very dangerous.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#248

Post by lonelappde »

chadlavi wrote: post #122
crazygringo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of biking isn't for your commute but rather a quick way to run an errand 5 avenues over using Citibike -- it's a 6 min ride instead of a 20 min walk. For that, super common to bike even in the winter. After all, you're already bundled up and will probably stay warmer just because you'll be outside for less time.

Lot of this. Most bikehsare rides in NYC are quick one-way jaunts like this. Anecdotally, I know a lot of women who ride bikeshare bikes for the 5-6 blocks it takes them to get home from the subway in the early-sunset months as a safety precaution against sexual harassment.

This must be a niche use case -- there aren't docks every 6 blocks or less

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#249

Post by lonelappde »

maximente wrote: post #36
kansface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

killer is summer imo, where 2-4 months are swamplike so any professional (attire wise) is bringing a change of clothes and/or showering but it's nice 7-8 months out of the year!

The city and subway is dirty and hot in general, so dressing at work is just smart.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#250

Post by lonelappde »

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #217
unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

This. NYers do not respect crosswalks, jaywalking or rules of the road. It is chaos. People walk wherever and drive wherever. It is chaos. I was shocked to see the contrast between NYC and Montreal in terms of respecting the rules of road

That's because the rules are unjust. The cars shouldn't be there, for the most part, and the ones that are there should be driving slowly and carefully and paying for the privilege of commandeering space.
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