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After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

nytimes.com

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Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#61

Post by fennecfoxen »

runarberg wrote: post #34
unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system. To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so…

> That is, if everybody makes the same mistake

Who says it's a mistake?

It has nothing to do with the signals and everything to do with the pedestrians. If you actually want people to respect the signals, place traffic police on every corner in Manhattan and issue jaywalking tickets to absolutely everyone, for months on end, and you'll see it. (You'll also see a backlash.)

Other than that, it's not happening.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#62

Post by OutsmartDan »

As an avid cyclist in NYC, this is a huge step forward into cyclist protection. I can't tell you how many times i've almost been hit, or doored, by a car. Sometimes, it's a lot safer to run a red light to get in front of a car versus waiting for the light to turn- but of course that's not legal.

Honestly, as huge and condensed NYC is, I am surprised this hasn't happened years ago. It's much, much more efficient to get from Point A to Point B on a bike vs taking the Subway, bus, or car. Would love to see something like the 14th street car ban to allow buses and cyclists only more widely adopted across the 5 boroughs.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#63

Post by mieseratte »

runarberg wrote: post #34
unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system. To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so…

> you can’t really blame the pedestrians of ruling this system as stupid and opting not to follow it.

Sure I can, they have a shit culture with little regard for traffic signals. My city has the same problem. I'm the odd man out for waiting for a signal, and am mocked for it at times. Nothing wrong with the signals or timing as a pedestrian (as a cyclist that's another story), but people feel they are more important. That they're 15 - 90 seconds is worth more.

Similarly, had a man recklessly pass me in his vehicle while I was biking to work yesterday. He went fully into the oncoming well above the posted speed limit, and cut me off as I was turning from the forward-moving lane into the left-hand turning lane. All to get around me to a red light.

Some people feel their 15 seconds are more valuable than others safety. In the case of pedestrian jaywalking, that their safety isn't worth the inconvenience of using the nearest crosswalk.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#64

Post by de_Selby »

schrodinger wrote: post #27
viburnum wrote: post #16

Even when America traffic engineers mean well, they screw up bike infrastructure terribly. They get all the details wrong. Generally their designs are too complicated, too cheap, and rely on paint instead of common sense about how bikes actually work. However, good design is possible. There’s even a book that explains how to do it well, in case anyone actually cares: https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/the-worlds-best-bi…

One thing I like about the newer NYC bike lanes is they put them inside of parked cars. It means you’re generally protected from traffic by a row of parked cars. And there’s a large enough buffer that you don’t have to worry about getting hit by an open door.

How does that work if the cyclist is going straight and cars are turning across them (e.g. Making a right turn).

Does it not make it harder for the traffic to see the cyclist?

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#65

Post by SwellJoe »

kansface wrote: post #26
pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

It'd be more popular if it were safer/easier. Which is true pretty much everywhere. Some of the places where biking is the most common also have quite harsh winters (e.g. Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, etc.).

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#66

Post by k_ »

runarberg wrote: post #34
unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system. To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so…

No. I don't care if a security system is not highly efficient in letting everyone moving around. It's not the point anyway.

That's the kind of thinking that makes our roads so deadly. If a rule in particular seems really silly to you, file a complaint / suggest a change so that it takes more parameters into account but until it is changed, stick to it. Loose some seconds or even minutes, I don't really care. These security rules should be followed by everyone, and people with your line of thinking shouldn't be allowed to own a car.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#67

Post by TulliusCicero »

wefarrell wrote: post #59
pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

I commute on my bike in NYC daily and I am far more terrified of pedestrians and other cyclists than I am of cars. Cars for the most part pay attention and obey traffic rules. Cyclists less so and pedestrians ignore rules entirely and frequently aren't even aware of cyclists.

You're probably more likely to hit cyclists or pedestrians, but they're a lot less likely to kill you.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#68

Post by beart »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

Cynical view - Deaths are never a trigger to prioritize safety. Liability is. Ask the lawyers.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#69

Post by fennecfoxen »

alephnan wrote: post #54
fennecfoxen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the cops. And the firefighters parking outside the fire station. And when a car does hit a bike and NYPD shows up... well... https://twitter.com/joemewler/status/1177042296900071425

Is the tagged @nytrafficpolice official? It’s suspended.

Doesn't look like it. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joVJgc...

If you prefer: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/09/30/cops-blow-off-witness...

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#70

Post by de_Selby »

choeger wrote: post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

I find that HGVs and busses are the main danger, they have huge blind spots right where cyclists are. Traffic in cities usually isn't fast enough for a big speed differential.
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