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Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

newsweek.com

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Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#91

Post by umvi »

jjeaff wrote: post #43
planetzero wrote: post #37

I really don't think it has anything to do with the hours. Children/teenagers will try to get away with as much as they can. It's more about being rebellious. My elementary, high school, and middle school all started at different times (and my senior year of high school started much later because I completed enough credits). Regardless of how late school started, I would just stay up later, the later school started.…

"Research to date has shown that the circadian rhythms of adolescents are simply fundamentally different from those of adults and children," "All of the studies of adolescent sleep patterns in the United States are showing that the time at which teens generally fall asleep is biologically determined -- but the time at which they wake up is socially determined," https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/12/1812121407…

Does that mean timezones and daylight savings disrupt teenage sleep patterns and that they are unable to adapt?

Should we abolish timezones and daylight savings as to not interfere with the immutable teenage sleeping patterns?

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#92

Post by umvi »

epicureanideal wrote: post #16
flerchin wrote: post #13

Everyone, not just kids. Go the fuck to bed. In my experience, it's the same parents that struggle to make it to 930 standups that also let their kids stay up too late.

There’s no reason a standup needs to be at 930 other than to punish people with later natural sleep cycles.

What determines these "natural sleep cycles"? Does daylight savings interfere with them?

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#93

Post by detaro »

planetzero wrote: post #26
epicureanideal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no reason a standup needs to be at 930 other than to punish people with later natural sleep cycles.

SO instead, you want to punish people with early natural sleep cycles?

What does your work time look like that you're punished by an lets say 13:00 standup? (That said, I prefer an async standup through chat etc too)

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#94

Post by MperorM »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6
MperorM wrote: post #3

Lack of sleep was definitely the cause of my terrible grades in highschool mathematics. I would stay up late (1-2 am) to play in starcraft tournaments, to have 8 am classes in mathematics. (There's a neat inverse correlation between my highschool grades and starcraft rank) It's crazy to me just how terrible school systems are at optimizing for learning. I would get terrible headaches from classrooms that had too many…

> I would get terrible headaches from classrooms that had too many people and too little fresh air. Did you test this hypothesis at the time with a CO2 monitor? Lack of sleep causes headaches, too.

I didn't test it back then, it was only much later I made the connection when I started getting the same headaches from university, where I got proper sleep, enjoyed the coursework etc.

A co2 monitor confirmed my suspicion. The problem with co2 monitors, is that it's really impractical to pull one out to check. I'm actually in the process of building one myself that instead sends descrete notifications to my phone if the co2 ppm gets too high.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#95

Post by MperorM »

EpicEng wrote: post #7
MperorM wrote: post #3

Lack of sleep was definitely the cause of my terrible grades in highschool mathematics. I would stay up late (1-2 am) to play in starcraft tournaments, to have 8 am classes in mathematics. (There's a neat inverse correlation between my highschool grades and starcraft rank) It's crazy to me just how terrible school systems are at optimizing for learning. I would get terrible headaches from classrooms that had too many…

>We wake up students too early I agree, but... you were staying up until 1-2am playing video games. C'mon.

In my defense I was a teenager!

Whether my choices were wise is not too important. What's important is that I almost failed mathematics because of my poor choices.

If every other teenager makes equally stupid choices, causing them to not learn vital skills, we should still change up the system. Teenagers will teenage, build the system around it!

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#96

Post by nullc »

astura wrote: post #46
lotsofpulp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, that leaves you no time to do anything "unstructured". No time to socialize with family or neighbors, no time to just go explore and wander or experiment, no time to learn to cook with one's parents or participate in cultural activities that may not be reflected in the school year. I don't mind sports, but the way it's placed on a pedestal in the US above all other activities is ridiculous to me. Not k…

Um you know football isn't year-round, right? Also, why the fuck is it "impossible" to socialize with family and neighbors at 6pm? They are probably at work until 5pm anyways. By the time someone is old enough to play football they should already know how to cook.

> Also, why the fuck is it "impossible" to socialize with family and neighbors at 6pm?

News reports claim high school students are assigned 3.5 hours of homework per weeknight.

(e.g. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2014-mar-01-la-ol-too... )

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#97

Post by ceejayoz »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #35
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would get terrible headaches from classrooms that had too many people and too little fresh air. Did you test this hypothesis at the time with a CO2 monitor? Lack of sleep causes headaches, too.

I don't think that's a fair demand of a schoolboy (at the time)

That's why I think it's unfair to assume the cause of said headaches is CO2, when other explanations - like OP's acknowledged sleep deprivation - suffice.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#98

Post by bigwavedave »

MperorM wrote: post #94
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would get terrible headaches from classrooms that had too many people and too little fresh air. Did you test this hypothesis at the time with a CO2 monitor? Lack of sleep causes headaches, too.

I didn't test it back then, it was only much later I made the connection when I started getting the same headaches from university, where I got proper sleep, enjoyed the coursework etc. A co2 monitor confirmed my suspicion. The problem with co2 monitors, is that it's really impractical to pull one out to check. I'm actually in the process of building one myself that instead sends descrete notifications to my phone if…

How did you end up getting permission to test this? It's hard to believe some high school would allow a random alum to invade their school and leave devices (that could literally be anything. Hell, maybe it's a time-release mustard gas distribution system or [even worse!] recording devices meant to fabricate and embroil the school in some kind of scandal!) in classrooms all over their campus.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#99

Post by bigwavedave »

gruez wrote: post #19
sb057 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, if we moved school to 5 am, he would have simply only stayed up until 10 pm. Is that particularly realistic?

>By that logic, if we moved school to 5 am, he would have simply only stayed up until 10 pm. I believe that. >Is that particularly realistic? The only issue is that at 5am, there won't be daylight during the winter. Lack of daylight presents safety issues and makes it more difficult to wake up.

YMMV, but I'm not sure that would be the case. As a teen, I had early morning seminary before high school each morning with other teens for church and we all had to get up between 4:30 and 5:00 but very few of us would go to bed before midnight. It was rough, but this anecdata fuels my bias for believing that most people feel like there aren't enough hours in the day and will stay up as late as they can in order to do what they please with whatever small amount of time is afforded to them each day.

To be clear, this wasn't just my seminary class- this is the way teens in the seminary program have handled it for years and years, so it may not be the biggest but it's definitely not the smallest sample size available.

Again, YMMV. I openly admit that I'm biased in my thinking because of the anecdata.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#100

Post by MperorM »

bigwavedave wrote: post #98
MperorM wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't test it back then, it was only much later I made the connection when I started getting the same headaches from university, where I got proper sleep, enjoyed the coursework etc. A co2 monitor confirmed my suspicion. The problem with co2 monitors, is that it's really impractical to pull one out to check. I'm actually in the process of building one myself that instead sends descrete notifications to my phone if…

How did you end up getting permission to test this? It's hard to believe some high school would allow a random alum to invade their school and leave devices (that could literally be anything. Hell, maybe it's a time-release mustard gas distribution system or [even worse!] recording devices meant to fabricate and embroil the school in some kind of scandal!) in classrooms all over their campus.

I see I didn't articulate myself clearly.

I later confirmed it, by carrying a co2 monitor with me and noticing every time I get that type of headache, it's because the co2 was too high.

The device I'm building will be attacked to my backpack and connected to my phone via bluetooth so it can push notifications descretely, allowing me to get out of a place where the co2 levels will give me a headache, without the social cost of taking out a co2 monitor everywhere you go.

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