Live data from Hacker News

Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

journals.sagepub.com

211–220 of 256 posts

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#211
post #197
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few remarks, notwithstanding your/my opinions. Physics has not "one of the better reproducibility rates" but 100%; per the Scientific Method any valid theory must: - be reproducible (verifiable empirically) - have predictive power - not negate existing theories This constitutes 'acceptable proof'. It yields a 'compound effect' to theoretical research: for instance, Newton's Laws were never wrong, just narrower…

I think you might have misunderstood? Academic physics publications do not have perfect reproduction rates. Especially theoretical physics. The criteria for a valid theory doesn’t prevent human mistakes. Everything you said applies to social sciences too. Per the scientific method any valid theory must be reproducible and predictive. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that the academic research and publication process…

I'll give you that it's a bit of an idealistic view, to be filed under "epistemology".

It is my understanding that margins of error in reproducible rates are on-par with our limits in engineering capabilities to 'test' experimentally. The validation becomes statistic because the real world is too chaotic/complex/whatever external cause, but the sum of evidence must tend to show (mean, SD, etc) that the theory applies to the real world, and predicts "a range of possible within some margin of error", which in practice results from our imprecisions. E.g. how we continuously prove Einstein's GR.

Quantum uncertainty is a whole other paradigm which I don't think can be discussed in the same terms; a lot of our 'logic' does not apply and thus I'd rather refrain from using classical frameworks of thinking to even characterize it.

But the fact stands that you should always be able to verify experimentally a valid theory; our failure in practice, sometimes, has nothing to do with theory.

Social sciences look at category of problems considered "hard" by any scientific metric because of their complexity. It's like meteorology and indeed astrophysics, we lack the processing power (both our brains and computers, for now) to go all-in on theory. I was however surprised, in my studies, that the more down-to-earth approach of anthropology (naive, dare I say seeking first principles) seemed to yield observation 'closer' to theory than its modern sister sociology, whose subtopic —the modern world, as opposed to very specific cultures for a quite narrow spacetime— is vastly too multi-factorial to even begin to modelize, let alone theorize.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#212
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The point of all of this, I feel is that to many people, the epiphany the article is making was quite obvious, although it is neat to see this quantified. Weirdly that runs contrary to what the study found actually. They mention that during polling, people expected, on average, to find no difference between how heterosexual men and women would feel about their ex-partners.

I guess I'm reading this wrong. >Two studies revealed that men are more likely than women to evaluate their former romantic partners more favorably. A third, larger study replicated this finding. All three studies yielded medium effect sizes (Cohen, 1988). A fourth study indicated that these findings are not intuitively obvious to most laypersons since only one in four laypeople (24%) anticipated these findings (and…

Yes?

Your point: >>The point of all of this, I feel is that to many people, the epiphany the article is making was quite obvious, although it is neat to see this quantified.

Their Point: >> A fourth study indicated that these findings are not intuitively obvious to most laypersons since only one in four laypeople (24%) anticipated these findings (and with most people predicting no gender difference).

Your point and their point are in conflict. You say "many people think this finding is quite obvious". I guess 24% is technically "many" people, but it's a clear minority. I wouldn't describe something that only 1:4 people expected as being something "many people" expected. Maybe "some" or "a minority of people".

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#213
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are not even genders on humans, just sex.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking. If you're serious, do you not believe there's a meaningful distinction between a person's biological sex at birth and the degree to which they self-identify with social constructs of masculinity and femininity?

Humans don't have gender and they cannot have. Now the word gender replaced my terms. Humans have fantasies, delusions, traumas, etc. but gender, it's not even close. A person who identifies as an attack helicopter is not an attack helicopter, cannot be. You cannot auto assign yourself a kind of identify you're not.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#214
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>while at the same time it's advantageous for women to be as sceptical and critical of men as possible. I don't know about this. These days, I've seen and met many women who have numerous male friends. Sure, ultra-conservative and religious women don't, but lots of women aren't conservative any more.

He's talking about evolution though, and it definitely seems to hold up for our past as a species.

I wouldn't be so sure. This line of thought seems to reflect a bias towards modern-day societies and how they operate ("modern" being the last couple thousand years or more). In ancient hunter-gatherer societies, people most likely lived in small tribes, so this idea that women have to be skeptical or critical of men doesn't really hold up. Men who are a real problem would have been cast out of the tribe or killed, and marriage probably didn't exist back then at all. We've seen in other primitive societies that monogamy is not the norm for humans at all.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#215
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the articles title just says "men" and "women" not "straight/heterosexual men/women". Seems like a more accurate title would include the fact since you're talking about people in relation to their sexual partners.

It's a title. If you want full details, read the article.

Hackernews: this title is clickbait and offends me!

Also Hackernews: Why would you expect this article's title to explain what it's about?!

My point: Unclear title is unclear and misleading, and striving for clarity of language isn't a bad thing. If you're going to talk about science, be more clear or expect to be called out on your bad titles.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#216
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If gender identity is not biological, what is it?

It's all the social stuff that goes along with being a "man", "woman", or whatever other identity we adopt.

That would be expected identities from society, as opposed to the personal identification to one of them.

If you believe that a persons gender identity is put onto them by the expectation of society, might as well forcibly decide which identities are valuable and supress all the rest. It would have no downside.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#217
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wondering whether their sample acknowledges the disproportionate number of men who murder their ex-female-partner Curious how this is relevant to the study? Roughly 0.001% of women are killed by a male partner each year in the US and - while terrible in of itself - I can't see it affecting the results of this study in any significant way.

Murder’s only the most extreme outcome. Physical harm happens at much higher rates than murder, and abuse might well affect this study. Rates of violence between partners show men instigating and abusing more often. A couple of different UN and US sources here are showing that a little over one in five women experiences abuse during her lifetime, compared to a bit under one in ten men: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki…

Sure. They talk about physical harm and abuse in the study, and it's obviously an important factor. I haven't (and wouldn't) claim otherwise.

But I was specifically asking the OP about murder because it isn't obviously a significant factor in this study (and I was interested to hear why they thought otherwise).

I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#218
post #182
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a sociological standpoint: Because you're doing bad social science. When you're talking about values/cultures, those things are inherently rooted in a culture. Saying "all men X" is almost entirely useless because there's almost always going to be a culture or subculture that makes it "most men" instead. This specific article was based off a study conducted in Austria with mean ages of men/women involved in thei…

Muh blank slate

Dear burner troll: What? There's nothing about my points that this study is not done independent of cultural influences that implies a blank slate or lack there of. It's entirely tangential at best. Cultures exist. We know this. They're observable and have observable differences. To say "men" implies "all men regardless of cultural and age factors which we didn't control for in any way in our experimentation".

There can be both: inherent differences in biology that influence behavior AND cultural difference that influence behavior, and pointing out that a study doesn't control for one or the other doesn't imply the belief or non-belief in it.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that is because we can identify the implicit and explicit biases, power structures, and environmental issues that are in front of our faces, and that there are more differences that can be explained by them than by biological causes.

Yes, I hear you on this. It's the old nature vs nurture debate. And the leftist orthodoxy is against any theory, finding or research that would assign some non-trivial level of blame to nature. My beef is that the left, who like consider them pro-science, can at times be just as anti-science as the right.

> And the leftist orthodoxy

Please. Take this nonsense elsewhere.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#220

That's because cis men in general are trash. Since 90% of the audience here is cis male this comment will be downvoted into limbo, thus confirming the statement.

This is a perfect example of an attempt at Kafkatrapping, specifically I'd say it is a "model S" Kafkatrap: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122 > Skepticism about any particular anecdotal account of {sin,racism,sexism,homophobia,oppression,…}, or any attempt to deny that the particular anecdote implies a systemic problem in which you are one of the guilty parties, is itself sufficient to establish your guilt.

Your comment just sent me down a rabbit-hole learning about Kafkatrapping. Really interesting to see a new term coined out of thin air that encapsulates so much meaning. It's pretty crazy how hard it is to defend against, I feel like viable defenses are still evolving.
Post reply on HN