Gmail marking email from me as spam • Hacker News Board

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#241

Post by rsync » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:06 PM UTC

irjustin wrote: post #79

I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents. Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion. As a gmai…

"As a business owner, I'm continuously having to do things so I don't end up in spam. Less images, specific wording and the list goes on."

We[1] run our own mail and DNS servers and, as you might imagine, have never sent a single HTML email or any email with any kind of "element" in it, etc.

Just plain, ASCII text.

We've got a 15 year clean IP, perfect score on the "mail config checkers" and almost every single email we send is in response to an email from that sender.

And yet ... often enough to make me anxious, we get marked as spam.

[1] rsync.net

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#242

Post by rsync » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:10 PM UTC

roblabla wrote: post #161

boudin wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, gmail is really not great. I host my own email but use gmail for work. I hate everything in gmail, from the UI to the lack of really simple way to filter thing (like sieve) and to the totally random behaviour like you described. In the end, I don't really read emails on gmail anymore because it's just a huge pain. My own server has a good reputation, but it meant setting up SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc.... Where it was…

I have exactly the same problem on my personal email server, ms silently drops my email! Their server replies with OK, but the email is nowhere to be found in the recipient’s inbox. Even if the conversation was initiated by the microsoft account and I merely reply to it, the email still disappears. I’ve got everything setup properly, all test websites come up green, and google receives my email just fine. SPF, DMARK,…

"I have exactly the same problem on my personal email server, ms silently drops my email! Their server replies with OK, but the email is nowhere to be found in the recipient’s inbox."

Slightly tangential ... I heard recently that "proper" in-line responses (ie, not top-posting) is somehow penalized by Microsoft (or Exchange online or Outlook online or ... ?) and was advised to stop my very proper 1990s style in-line email quoting/responding and just top-post to avoid either non-delivery or something like the body of the email not being shown ...

Or something ?

Does anyone know what I am referring to and can shed some light here ?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#243

Post by brightball » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

Kovah wrote: post #111

irjustin wrote: post #79

I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents. Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion. As a gmai…

> As a gmail user, I 100% appreciate keeping my inbox extremely clean. Google's spam filter is a welcome addition. Interesting how different things are for different users. Gmails spam protection isn't working at all for me. Confirmation emails from reputable sources get into spam, while really obvious spam messages get into my inbox. I mean.. really, really obvious messages. With "dfdf" a thousand times at the end j…

I spoke to somebody the other day about highly targeted ads that come from snooping into too much private information. The lady was happy about it because it helps her find things that she likes faster.

It's just interesting how perspectives differ on this type of thing.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#244

Post by boudin » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

roblabla wrote: post #161

boudin wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, gmail is really not great. I host my own email but use gmail for work. I hate everything in gmail, from the UI to the lack of really simple way to filter thing (like sieve) and to the totally random behaviour like you described. In the end, I don't really read emails on gmail anymore because it's just a huge pain. My own server has a good reputation, but it meant setting up SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc.... Where it was…

I have exactly the same problem on my personal email server, ms silently drops my email! Their server replies with OK, but the email is nowhere to be found in the recipient’s inbox. Even if the conversation was initiated by the microsoft account and I merely reply to it, the email still disappears. I’ve got everything setup properly, all test websites come up green, and google receives my email just fine. SPF, DMARK,…

One thing I've noticed too, make sure that your time is synchronized with an NTP server. Even with a good reputation , MS drops emails with no error if you're a bit off.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#245

Post by Twisell » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

perennate wrote: post #220

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after reading that, I'm not sure what an email hobbit is. Someone who just wants to live in a cozy hole in the ground with a few nice email amenities?

My impression from that was (almost) everyone is a hobbit. Hobbits being normal people who don't want to send marketing spam.

But still want own their own domain so that they are not tied to any internet king.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#246

Post by penname » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

OT: Outreach via email and I am not talking about doing some crappy newsletters has the highest sophistication level in our company. And I am not talking about setting up some lame DMARC/SPF, we (must) do 10x more. DB adminstration is easy compared to getting emails through on a large scale.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#247

Post by ViViDboarder » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:22 PM UTC

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #202

Avamander wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My low volume server can send mail very nicely. You can't however do your job half-assed, lack of strong SPF/TLS/DKIM isn't okay from both Google's and anti-spam perspective.

If you would have actually read the link in the post you're replying to, you would know that Gmail is not accepting mail from me despite that I've spent a huge amount of time in verifying that everything is configured correctly. Also: please stop spreading unsubstantiated claims about your magical server magically sending mail past Gmail's spam filters. There's virtually no chance of that being true, and if it someho…

I run a personal mail server for just myself and I’ve been getting full delivery to Gmail so far as well. Same with Outlook.

I’m waiting for the day they try to shut me down.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#248

Post by Twisell » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

tobias3 wrote: post #141

Twisell wrote: post #123

This finally get me to the point of understanding the "bad neighbor" signal that probably get my personal email (and some of my jobs) rejected from Gmail. Reading the thread was very instructive, but the most irritating point is that this rejection is mostly silent even if you send only 20 mail a week from your email address and all DKIM & all are in place. Lots of pedantic comment in this thread however, it seems th…

Ok, so the way OVH can solve the problem is the same way e.g. Amazon SES solves the problem. 1. They block all outgoing mail (outgoing 25, 465 and 587) and only open it up once you have submitted a ticket where you decribe for what purpose and how often you want to send mail (if you start off wanting to send a million mails per week they won't open outgoing mail at all). Manually review of those tickets is required s…

Until now I trusted them so I use their own email servers. They are perfectly aware of my usage since while sending they even implement a trick so that one can't send bulk email from their SMPTP.

And that's why I now fear they are utterly incompetent...

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#249

Post by snagglegaggle » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

boudin wrote: post #114

the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

Yeah, gmail is really not great. I host my own email but use gmail for work. I hate everything in gmail, from the UI to the lack of really simple way to filter thing (like sieve) and to the totally random behaviour like you described. In the end, I don't really read emails on gmail anymore because it's just a huge pain. My own server has a good reputation, but it meant setting up SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc.... Where it was…

MS is really bad at this, a few web forums I am involved with are unable to sign people up at all.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#250

Post by dghughes » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:28 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #166

vidarh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem to me with Gmails spam filter is that it is so totally hit and miss, and there seems to be no reliable way of ensuring that messages stop going to spam, even from other Gmail accounts, from people on my contact list, that I've persistently marked not spam. At this point the only reason I'm still using Gmail is sheer inertia, and it's a question of when I get time to start untangling myself from it…

Have you tried filter rules?

Not sure about OP but to me rules in GMail don't work.

Gmail filters don't seem to work anymore. I had filters and labels and it was great but I noticed they seems to be failing.

If you go down the rabbit hole of Google Gmail support you'll find filters don't apply to email ("conversations") already in your inbox. But they also don't seem to apply to new email.

Asking on various groups people seem to be giving instructions for options in GMail that no longer exist.