Gmail marking email from me as spam • Hacker News Board

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#41

Post by song » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

sdan wrote: post #24

LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.

You're right. I use Fastmail scared that my emails will go to spam. But ideally I want to live in a world where my emails hosted on my email server will send like they did 10-20 years ago.

I keep using my own email server to host my emails but had to switch to fastmail for smtp since it was untenable otherwise...

It's sad that it's no longer viable to have your own email server

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#42

Post by CaptainZapp » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

loose_pants wrote: post #21

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> we need Google to stop this "my way or you don't exist" What about stop being so entitled? Google is offering free awesome services for very little and you’re saying these things. It’s so demoralizing. Get off your high horse.

What about stop being so entitled? Google is offering free awesome services for very little and you’re saying these things.

It seems you're not getting the point. The problem is not for users of those "awesome" Google services the problem manifests itself for people sending legitimate emails from legitimate email accounts to a Google account.

Google tags those as spam and refuses to deliver them, while always shifting the goal posts and providing sub par support (an number of essentially useless links) to the sender of the email to a Google account.

This happens, btw, also when the sender account never spammed and sent legitimate mails to the Gmail user for years.

So your snarky comment is completely out of line here.

It's not about people mooching free "awesome" Google services for free it's that Google is a rotten net citizen and is behaving like shit to the entire world.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#43

Post by osamagirl69 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:31 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #20

osamagirl69 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hotmail throwaway account (it has since been migrated to outlook with the microsoft buyout) and its spam filter is completely backward. There is currently 373 e-mails in my inbox (100% spam, expected since it is a throwaway...) and 4 e-mails in my spam folder--100% of them the account registration/confirmation e-mails that I was wanted. I have migrated to fastmail for all of my personal e-mail, which I have…

> it has since been migrated to outlook with the microsoft buyout Aside: Microsoft bought Hotmail in 1997! How old is that account?!

Honestly not sure, but certainly sometime in the 20th century. It was my main e-mail back then, I migrated to Yahoo! shortly after the Microsoft buyout and kept the HoTMaiL as a throwaway. When Google announced Gmail and the 1GB (with projection to infinite) storage I switched to them as soon as I got an invite, but when they changed their slogan from "Don't be evil" to "Do the right thing" with the Alphabet restructure I ditched it and moved to my own domain with Fastmail. If Fastmail starts to show signs of evil it will be as easy as updating my domain records to point toward OurMailIsActuallyGoodIPromiseThisTime.com and click through the certificate warnings on my mail clients.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#44

Post by thih9 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:32 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #22

tipsysquid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us that can, we must vote with our dollars. To divorce ourselves from Google is expensive and painful, but to ignore it is catastrophe

but it's not expensive. there are other free email services, or you can pay for decent email hosting for a few bucks a month.

Could you post examples?

In my opinion free email services either belong to other big corporations or provide lower quality service than gmail.

Few bucks a month add up and can be considered expensive by many.

I don’t like google and I pay for a different email account. I just wanted to remind that gmail may be hard to quit and that costs are subjective.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#45

Post by cm2187 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:32 AM UTC

hansjorg wrote: post #18

It's a bit surprising that he got anything through without SPF and an MX record. That seems to be the minimum to get mail into the inbox for a new domain at least, so his domain probably had some positive reputation at one point.

And that was already the minimum more than 5 years ago.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#46

Post by dajonker » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:33 AM UTC

Email is not the same it has been for years/decades. These days you need to use all the security tools available, most notably TLS and DKIM, set a strict DMARC policy, and don't do anything unexpected such as sending lots of emails out of the blue.

Email is all about reputation: it can take a lot of effort to build trust, but just one bad move and it's all gone.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#47

Post by rahuldottech » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

I have the same problem with my email server. I have valid and properly configured DKIM, SPF and PRT, so I don't know what else I'm expected to do...?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#48

Post by agravier » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

odysseus wrote: post #31

This guy has an odd (seemingly nonsensical) quote in his email signature. To a machine learning algorithm, it might look kind of like the random nonsense some spammers put in spam to corrupt Bayesian filters. He might want to try temporarily taking out that signature if he’s using that as part of his emails.

He tests this particular hypothesis here: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailop@mailop.org/msg08825.html

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#49

Post by Johnny555 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:35 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #33

Johnny555 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually worse than that: > "Their network; their rules". No, it's not their network. It's our common network. If anybody imposes own rules on their part of the network, we are losing interoperability. Internet loses any sense. He apparently thinks that he (or maybe more accurately "we") should dictate how private companies treat traffic. Despite it's huge footprint, Google does not have a monopoly on email, if…

> Google does not have a monopoly on email 53% of email accounts in the US are with Gmail. What's the definition of a monopoly?

Is that a rhetorical question or you really don't know?

Definition of monopoly:

1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action

2 : exclusive possession or control

3 : a commodity controlled by one party

4 : one that has a monopoly

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#50

Post by rosybox » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 6:35 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.

I've been using Fastmail for about 5 or 6 years now. My only problem is the 1GB mailbox size limit I have. Maybe I should upgrade. Otherwise I love it. Their webmail client is phenomenal and works with mobile and desktop. I don't like their Android app but I haven't tried it in a year. Their web client is so good I don't need an app for them.

I do see mail going to spam though. It's never bugged me that much.