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Gmail marking email from me as spam

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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#21

Post by loose_pants »

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> we need Google to stop this "my way or you don't exist"

What about stop being so entitled? Google is offering free awesome services for very little and you’re saying these things. It’s so demoralizing. Get off your high horse.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#22

Post by clairity »

tipsysquid wrote: post #12
sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

For those of us that can, we must vote with our dollars. To divorce ourselves from Google is expensive and painful, but to ignore it is catastrophe

but it's not expensive. there are other free email services, or you can pay for decent email hosting for a few bucks a month.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#23

Post by LeoPanthera »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #17

OP already received a decent reply, > A quick look at Talos Intelligence reports a 1600% increase in email from your domain over the last day; email reputation os 'neutral' at this time. Not good, not bad, but neutral. > Also you're on OVH, about which a quick look through the list's archives will possibly prove instructive. It's reasonably likely (as likely as not) that you're running on an IP in a neighbourhood wit…

Ah yes. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

A "1600%" increase in email could be explained by 1 email yesterday, and 16 emails today.

Which is in fact what he claims lower down in the thread.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#24

Post by sdan »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #13
sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.

You're right.

I use Fastmail scared that my emails will go to spam. But ideally I want to live in a world where my emails hosted on my email server will send like they did 10-20 years ago.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#25

Post by bnegreve »

I also have my own mail server, and I have the same problem.

I'm guessing this is machine learning algorithms confusing correlation with causation once again. Being a small private mail server is strongly correlated with being a spammer. So even if you are not relying any spam, you certainly look like someone that would. And even if you have not done it yet, you will probably in the near future, so they might as well treat you as a spammer right away to avoid potential problems. (analogy with racism intended).

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#26

Post by Scramblejams »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

Is this problem unique to Gmail? Do owners of self-hosted mail servers also have problems sending mail to Yahoo, Outlook, AOL, iCloud? Do these providers have a better mechanism for getting yourself un-blocked?

In my experience struggling to deliver email from my self-hosted server, Gmail's by far the worst. Not that I haven't had the occasional issue with Yahoo, Outlook and AOL. But here's the key difference: Yahoo, Outlook and AOL actually offer tools to resolve the issue! For small senders like me who fall below Gmail's postmaster tools limits, we have no recourse other than trying to find some sympathetic Google employee and DMing them. The experience really blows.

I desperately wish Gmail would offer some sort of registration program that would let me attest to my identity and thereby give my server the benefit of the doubt. I'd happily cough up my private medical records if that meant my family's emails reached Gmail's inboxes most of the time.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#27

Post by Johnny555 »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #17

OP already received a decent reply, > A quick look at Talos Intelligence reports a 1600% increase in email from your domain over the last day; email reputation os 'neutral' at this time. Not good, not bad, but neutral. > Also you're on OVH, about which a quick look through the list's archives will possibly prove instructive. It's reasonably likely (as likely as not) that you're running on an IP in a neighbourhood wit…

It's actually worse than that:

> "Their network; their rules".

No, it's not their network. It's our common network. If anybody imposes own rules on their part of the network, we are losing interoperability. Internet loses any sense.

He apparently thinks that he (or maybe more accurately "we") should dictate how private companies treat traffic. Despite it's huge footprint, Google does not have a monopoly on email, if they are treating users unfairly, they can switch -- but I use Gmail because their spam filtering is so good. And I'm ok with dropping a few legit emails if it means not seeing spam in my mailbox.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#28

Post by moksly »

loose_pants wrote: post #21
sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> we need Google to stop this "my way or you don't exist" What about stop being so entitled? Google is offering free awesome services for very little and you’re saying these things. It’s so demoralizing. Get off your high horse.

It’s been a while since google made anything awesome hasn’t it? Maps is still great, but things like AMPs are so terrible that they were a bigger part in driving me to DDG than privacy.

Maybe I’m weird, but I’ve never been in an AMP where I wouldn’t rather go to the actual side and use reader mode.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#29

Post by jen_h »

Gonna second whoever said: Use DKIM.

I actually check Spam daily now, after finding support emails whose logs got snagged in the dragnet & personal stuff — even email from my Dad got shunted to Spam.

I still tip the hat, though, to Google, whose algorithms are wise enough to assiduously stow both the “jump on a call” and “donate to my campaign” emails to spam.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#30

Post by gscott »

cnst wrote: post #2

I'm actually having a similar problem recently, although my messages are declined at the SMTP stage, "due to the very low reputation of the sending domain", which I attribute to the output of certain cron jobs being sent towards my own Gmail account — it seems like my whole primary domain name has subsequently been blacklisted a few weeks ago: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21340460 * https://mailman.nanog.or…

In testing different mail servers I find that Gmail will treat them differently based upon there hello line. I can't remember which one was accepted most but there is a difference. Also you need to look into if others on your netblock are sending spam. If you are on the same netblock as a spammer then gmail will treat you as if you are the spammer.

This site is very useful if you have your own mail server https://www.senderscore.org/

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