We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes • Hacker News Board

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#191

Post by asjw » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:35 AM UTC

tralarpa wrote: post #164

glangdale wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appear to have kicked off a frenzy of folks eurosplaining to me that they personally ride in deep snow, howling gales, and see no reason that people in hot climates (including hot humid climates with near 100% humidity, or extreme heat events) can't cycle everywhere at all times. Also they will all be happily cycling when they are 80 just like Grandpa Josef and Great-grandma Helga, etc. Congrats, but the statistics…

> I appear to have kicked off a frenzy of folks eurosplaining Ah, come on. You asked for it, didn't you? You wrote "I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters". Of course, such an extreme statement will trigger a reaction from people who actually experience every day what you claim to be impossible. It'…

> One quarter of the Dutch population

If only the world was flat and below the sea level as Holland...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#192

Post by bacon_waffle » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:35 AM UTC

m1sta_ wrote: post #37

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

Every cyclist frees up a car park.

We had a wonderful irony in local elections recently: the newly elected mayor doesn't have a driver's license, he hitchhiked to work previously as a city counselor and plans to continue that as mayor. Many of his opponents had car parking high on their platforms :).

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#193

Post by ido » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:35 AM UTC

anyzen wrote: post #181

sunstone wrote: post #174

While it sounds preposterous right now this problem will soon solve itself with already built "bike lanes". And bicycles are not the solution. The solution, as this article touches on, is light weight electric transport using the existing road structure. There's a strong indication of this future in the fact that last year the Dutch bought more electric bikes than normal bikes in total. And they paid twice as much fo…

Even electric bikes are not the solution, at least not in many parts of the world. What happens when it rains / snows? I don't know what the solution is though, maybe small electric cars, self driven, as part of public transportation service?

I regularly ride my "normal" bicycle (including 2 little kids in a trailer) in the rain in Berlin (where it rains for 167 days per year on average, which is ~45% of the year).

You just need the appropriate clothes & gear.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#194

Post by knolan » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #152

knolan wrote: post #144

I cycle 24km to work across the city each way on an ebike. It’s the fastest mode of transport available to me, even limited to 25km/h. The bike takes an hour, the bus 90 minutes because of its indirect route, and the car about the same with morning gridlock. You could do it in 35 minutes with no traffic. When I take the bus I arrive to work tired and groggy. When I cycle I arrive energised. I don’t drive because park…

24km? What's your bike's range? Over here ebikes are just about limited to 25-30km on full charge. Do you charge it at work?

It's a Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0. The range is advertised at 80km and I've gotten about 75km out of it on a single charge with some steep hills.

It was not a cheap bike so I keep it in my office and I have a charger at home and at work should I need to top up.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#195

Post by stinos » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

sunstone wrote: post #174

While it sounds preposterous right now this problem will soon solve itself with already built "bike lanes". And bicycles are not the solution. The solution, as this article touches on, is light weight electric transport using the existing road structure. There's a strong indication of this future in the fact that last year the Dutch bought more electric bikes than normal bikes in total. And they paid twice as much fo…

bicycles are not the solution ... The solution, as this article touches on, is light weight electric transport using the existing road structure.

To me this sounds pretty funny: you make it sound like an electric bicycle is not a bicycle, whereas to me it's still a bicycle, just with the addition of a motor. Even a speedpedelec is normally still considered a bicycle here: after all it doesn't move unless you pedal, unlike a moped for instance.

Electrics will soon start to invade

Small city in Belgium here with historically a lot of cyclists: this has happened already despite infrastructire not being sufficient :)

Even a cheap electric bike already feels much safer in urban car traffic than a pedal bike because it has super fast acceleration from a dead stop

Hmm, having used more than one cheap and not-so cheap and expensive electric ones, that is not my experience at all and for more than one reason: it only works really well (i.e. better than a non-electric bicycle) if your bicycle is in the highest power mode and in a low enough gear. Even then, it takes some experience to be able to use that fast acceleration safely. Seriously, I see people struggle everyday with starting from dead stop just because they're still in the wrong gear or fail to put their foot on the pedal in time etc. Or they succeed and then they get suprised by the acceleration and can't keep the bike straight. Just ask people in the hospitals: amount of injuries is up since electric bicycles happened.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#196

Post by code_code » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #81

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

Wether is mostly a clothes and a comfort problem. I grew up on the countryside in the Alps and used the bicycle the majority of my life to commute, and that includes rain and snow. The days where cycling are impossible or dangerous depend on where you are living, but in my case it was around 4 days a year. However I think when citylab is writing about the balance between cars and bicycles, they are refering to cities…

An illustration: How I Learned to Cycle Like a Dutchman

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/how-i-lea...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#197

Post by asjw » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #88

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

If people biked more then there would be less disabled people. No one who spends a couple hours a day on a bike is losing a leg to diabetes. Or getting hurt in a car accident, if they aren’t near cars.

Diabetes is a genetic condition

No one is not having diabetes because is biking...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#198

Post by enriquto » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

code_code wrote: post #179

enriquto wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am complaining about the assignment for that intended usage. Why do we allow this usage? It takes most of the usable surface of the city for the storage of ugly, static objects. I would rather assign those spaces for other uses, like wider walkways, kids playgrounds, flowers, whatever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking

I like this argument. The government is effectively subsidizing a huge amount of real estate (to a huge cost, with the taxes collected from everyone), for the usage of free parking. I would prefer if all that money went instead to free housing, or free healthcare.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#199

Post by L_Rahman » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:38 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

German interest rates are below zero right now. There actually are hundreds of billions of dollars flying around the world chasing the slightest hint of return. So yes, we do have the money.

Also MMT.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#200

Post by systemtest » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:38 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #166

socialist_coder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A mom with three young kids in tow Ha! Go see how they do it in Europe. Bike trailers, extra seats in the front & back, built in cargo decks, longer bikes; there are lots of fancy ways to load a lot of kids & cargo onto your bike. And don't forget that kids can ride their own bikes too! My kid was riding a bike with me to daycare at 3-4 years old. Your thinking is too car-centric!

But why? It takes a long time to get kids helmeted up and they don’t ride very fast. Not everyone has the leisure to ride bikes everywhere. My kids schools are 10 miles from home and 5 miles from each other. Even with a dedicated bike lane, it would still take dramatically more work to drive. Then, if it rains.. I have to worry about it rain gear for everyone. Then if one kid gets sick at school, I’m supposed to ride…

It looks like infrastructure and population density is your issue. Dutch kids ride to school, sports and social activities on their own from around the age of seven. You are the one wasting time driving dozens of miles to drop the kids off everywhere when they could bike on their own while you drive straight to and from work and not worry about the kids.

But again, the United States is lacking the infrastructure and population density for this. Yes it's a big country but they could've gone for small dense settlements with everything you need in reach and then big distances between those towns. But having everything spread apart was a cheaper solution.