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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#31
post #14
post #8

You know what? Fine. I think the increased trend in cycling in day, San Francisco is neat. I have questioned the sanity of those who thought plastic pylons were adequate “protection” wherever I’ve seen them. Streets are typically city-owned and managed though, and if you’re in a place with a tax regime like California’s, then you’re in a place that relies heavily on things like sales taxes and capital gains taxes whi…

None of this extended, anti-American rant has anything to do with bikes in particular. You're just complaining about doing anything at all with the government and with unions. So, build some private bike infrastructure. If Elon Musk wants to make Hyperbike, sure, let's see if it gets built and forms part of a functioning network. Also - how come your arguments don't apply to building roads themselves? How did Central…

I was too young for the Central Freeway, so no comment on that one. Feel free to pull in the relevant data yourself though.

The Bay Bridge was built in a different time under a different regulatory regime and with fewer rules. The Eastern Span, because the Western Span hasn’t been “rebuilt”, much like the Central Subway (Not Freeway, I’m intentionally switching gears here) was built in a more modern regulatory regime, over budget, in more time than planned, and with defects which will limit the effective life of the new span (near as I’m aware the Subway doesn’t suffer this particular deficiency).

Let me be clear, I support building more bike infrastructure, but if we start tomorrow without addressing the regulatory and public budgetary issues of today, it will take more time than necessary and cost more than necessary and not by small amounts. I don’t want to privatize our bloody Streets, I want a sane taxation and budgetary regime that doesn’t depend on the will of finicky voters, worse: a supermajority of them in the case of California under certain conditions.

Oh and my friend, not all criticisms are inherently Anti-American. This is just that regular kind, the kind or a dissatisfied taxpayer dissatisfied with the level of service provided by the State and Local government, and the conditions which ensure that ain’t changing anytime soon. It’s the thing that guarantees that if you dream big and imagine every City an Amsterdam, you’re going to be disappointed. The more friction there is to doing stuff, the less stuff that voters have the stomach for to have done.

tl;dr Ballot box budgeting (to say only the least!) is insane, and ballot box budgeting for bikeways will net you more twigs than bridges.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#32
post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

Families is not a counterpoint. I have had three kids in my bike. Now my kids ride their own bikes but we meet parents with all their kids in their bikes every day. There are homes for the elderly around here that put two elders in a bike to get them out for a ride. You didn't mention shopping, but I did put all my shopping in that same bike I had my kids in.

Guess what the biggest obstacle to my kids getting around on their own is? Cars! You don't have to exclude cars from cities, just make them be there in a way that also allows children to safely get around.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#33
post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

> A mom with three young kids in tow

Ha! Go see how they do it in Europe. Bike trailers, extra seats in the front & back, built in cargo decks, longer bikes; there are lots of fancy ways to load a lot of kids & cargo onto your bike. And don't forget that kids can ride their own bikes too! My kid was riding a bike with me to daycare at 3-4 years old. Your thinking is too car-centric!

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#34
post #2

> Cars are the slowest, lowest-bandwidth forms of urban transportation. This is the kind of thing I read a lot in micromobility advocacy articles, but it seems like it can't be true. How can a bike, scooter, or moped be either faster or higher-bandwidth than a car? Also, serious question: if electric SDCs became widespread, would it still make sense to advocate things like bikes? You can't transport a family of three…

Cars transport around ~1500 people per hour per lane, while 2 bike lanes taking up the same amount of space of a car lane is ~5200 people per hour. A proper train line does 32'000 people per hour.

https://www.theurbanist.org/2016/05/26/the-supply-and-demand...

A more visual demonstration:

https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-alm...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#35
post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

> The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around.

Bakfiets: https://www.babboe.nl/bakfietsen/big

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

> The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Bakfiets: https://www.babboe.nl/bakfietsen/big

They also now offer electric assist versions as well.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#37
post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

Every cyclist frees up a car park.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#38
post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

Coming from the US West Coast, I was unpleasantly surprised by how anti-pedestrian certain parts felt. The biggest issue for me was the difference in right of way in New Zealand. It was unsettling walking around with a reduced right of way versus cars. Reversing that would be a major nation-wide undertaking, but I think it would benefit the pedestrian and biking atmosphere.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

Families is not a counterpoint. I have had three kids in my bike. Now my kids ride their own bikes but we meet parents with all their kids in their bikes every day. There are homes for the elderly around here that put two elders in a bike to get them out for a ride. You didn't mention shopping, but I did put all my shopping in that same bike I had my kids in. Guess what the biggest obstacle to my kids getting around…

Most families in the developed world are having one to two kids.

I rode a bike with a toddler in a toddler seat on the back until I was 8 months pregnant. You can also get little "cars" to tow behind your bike to hold two kids.

I always hated cars. My kids never felt like a barrier to going far free. My marriage did. After the divorce, my kids and I eventually went car free.

They are adults. They still live with me. We remain car free. We're happier this way.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

How are other cities solving this problem? Does Grandma never go out to dinner in Tokyo or Bogota?

They bike. Or take public transport and walk afterwards. My grandparents do this, and they wouldn't have it any other way.
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