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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

citylab.com

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#81

Post by atoav »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

Wether is mostly a clothes and a comfort problem. I grew up on the countryside in the Alps and used the bicycle the majority of my life to commute, and that includes rain and snow. The days where cycling are impossible or dangerous depend on where you are living, but in my case it was around 4 days a year.

However I think when citylab is writing about the balance between cars and bicycles, they are refering to cities, where you (A) wouldn’t ban cars completely because of delivery and people with mobility problems and (B) the usage of cars by everybody has very tangible problems attached to it (space, noise, pollution, air quality).

And when we are talking about balance we are usually talking about one that is extremely on the side of the car anyways. Even in european cities there is are often two 1 meter bicycle lanes for six 3 meter car lanes and as a cyclist who often rides on crowded bicycle lanes while the streets next to me are empty, I can just dream of the things that could be done with the space of one car lane.

I have also lived for some time in Denmark and the Netherlands, where cycling is extremely widespread and I know what difference the infrastructure makes. When you cycle in a big german city you have to be constantly on the watch to not get overlooked by motorists, in the Netherlands nearly everbody cycles and the infrastructure is so much better, that cycling feels (and probably is) much less dangerous. This is also why it is more popular there.

That beeing said, I don’t believe that cycling alone will be the solution of the cities of the future. Cheap and good public transport systems and a clever network of delivery routes will also be needed.

And those who really need a car will certainly be granted permissions to use them (as they are now when it comes to all european historical city centers/pedestrian areas). The spry Euro-oldsters you mentioned seem to swear on E-bikes, because they can use electricity when they have to go up steep hills or just feel like it. Gives them the security they will make it even if their powers are running out. They would probably say sth. like: “There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes”

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#82

Post by fergie »

paganel wrote: post #71
flexie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind the weather in Copenhagen where the amount of people who bikes every day exceeds the amount of people who take public transportation every day by around 50% (1). Weather in Copenhagen is rarely very cold or very warm. But Copenhagen weather is not "startlingly good all year-round". It rains quite often and temperatures are often close to zero or sub zero. And it's windy all the time. It even snows a few…

Copenhagen doesn’t have 40 degrees Celsius heatwaves in the summer nor winter blizzards that make you feel like you’re in Siberia, while places like the US East Coast (and I guess even the Chicago area in the Midwest) have them both.

Copenhagen might not quite have 40C heatwaves, but it certainly has winter blizzards that make you feel like you’re in Siberia.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#83

Post by chrisco255 »

This article paints the interstate highway system as some sort of evil incarnation without even giving so much as a breath to the idea that the Interstate highway system is one of the largest and most successful civil works projects of all time. The Romans had their aquaducts. The Americans have their highways. Prior to the Interstate system, it would take as much as two months to travel coast to coast. Eisenhower was part of an Army convoy in 1919 that did just that. It took them 62 days. With the interstate system, it can be traversed in just a few days. You have no idea how blessed you are to live in an age where transportation is so freely available. While our passenger train network may suck in the U.S. and rush hour traffic is awful, we have a phenomenal road and air travel network.

Meanwhile, I support bike/scooter lanes in dense urban core areas. They're not a solution for most people though, unless you can afford to live in the densest and usually most expensive parts of a city.

Autonomous buses should be within reach this decade. I can't think of a better mass transit solution more easily fitted into the existing systems than autonomous buses or micro buses that could fill more niches and provide reliable service 24/7.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#85

Post by mwilcox »

cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

The entire debacle with the city council wanting to spend years "reimagining what the city could be" instead of getting back to work building new infrastructure immediately is why Christchurch has taken so long to come back to life.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#86

Post by enriquto »

inertiatic wrote: post #78
enriquto wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My car gets parked across the street from my apartment building. Offtopic, but this has to end. I do not understand how it is socially acceptable to put huge pieces of your private property on the public streets. You cannot just put your washing machine on the street because you have nowhere else to put it! Why can you do that with a car?

Are you complaining about the public using public space intended for that usage?

I am complaining about the assignment for that intended usage. Why do we allow this usage? It takes most of the usable surface of the city for the storage of ugly, static objects. I would rather assign those spaces for other uses, like wider walkways, kids playgrounds, flowers, whatever.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#87

Post by dvdkhlng »

flukus wrote: post #59
cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

> "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" The part that always makes me laugh is when they inevitably call cyclists entitled. It's always "I demand massive amounts of probably subsidized infrastructure, to be able to drive at maximum speed all the way and to have a personal space reserved to store my car for the next 8 hours, but those entitled cyclists get in the way". Not to m…

You forgot the rather significant social cost of health issues caused by car traffic exhaust [1] and the longer term social cost of exhaust having an effect on climate [2].

[1] https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/press/pressinformation/nit...

[2] https://news.stanford.edu/2015/01/12/emissions-social-costs-...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#88

Post by Alex3917 »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

If people biked more then there would be less disabled people. No one who spends a couple hours a day on a bike is losing a leg to diabetes. Or getting hurt in a car accident, if they aren’t near cars.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#89

Post by NickNameNick »

inertiatic wrote: post #78
enriquto wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My car gets parked across the street from my apartment building. Offtopic, but this has to end. I do not understand how it is socially acceptable to put huge pieces of your private property on the public streets. You cannot just put your washing machine on the street because you have nowhere else to put it! Why can you do that with a car?

Are you complaining about the public using public space intended for that usage?

This whole discussion is about changing planning for the allocation of public space...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#90

Post by donjoe »

missosoup wrote: post #67
donjoe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been in these temps. Not in Australia though so can't talk about UV protection. Sunscreen helped me in other environments though. Doesn't 'Tour down under' happen during Australian summer months? Somehow they manage, too.

I am sure that highly fit 20-30 year olds who train for marathons can manage. I am not sure how that translates to everyday commute for tens of millions of people of all fitness levels and ages. This 'if I can do it then surely everyone can do it' attitude is incredibly myopic given the scale of the issue. You represent less than 1% of the population (A total of 1% of Aussies report cycling to work once a month or mo…

I hope you see your point of argument regarding weather conditions: just because you aren't able to deal with the circumstances doesn't mean that everyone else needs to be forced into car/climatized shadowy areas.

The article is about giving space to -all- participants. Currently we highly prioritize cars due to arguments like the weather. As pointed out, weather is not an issue for many folks out there.

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