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The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

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Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#201

Post by theNJR »

Krasnol wrote: post #194
theNJR wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason most the web has been neutered is why Hacker News is so great. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259

/s? There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions. Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also. This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.

No, I was being serious. You have some fair points but I still think the ecosystem here is one of the most healthy.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#202

Post by theNJR »

soulofmischief wrote: post #198
Krasnol wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/s? There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions. Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also. This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.

Parent misses the point. Hacker News is an example of what one specimen in a healthy ecosystem of forums would look like. However, we do not have a healthy ecosystem, and as such Hacker News comes off as oppressive to those with outlier opinions, because another forum of equal quality (both content and diversity of users), similar size and a similar topic of discourse doesn't really exist. Being banished from HN mean…

That's the nature of large groups of people though.

If the outlier opinions have merit, shouldn't there be a forum for their expression?

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#203

Post by dencodev »

aww_dang wrote: post #90

I skimmed the comments here. Then I skimmed the article. Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. The article is about a lawyer arguing for 'justice' through highly politicized language. YMMV, but I don't think "The Internet of creation" was hindered for want of lawyers, lobbyists or regulations. Similarly, sitting on the sidelines…

Shameless self plug but I did a simple site recently to this effect:

http://iwillansweryouremails.com

I like that I'm not tracking anyone, it doesn't require UI/UX, I have little to nothing to gain from it - it's just a human connection. Something fun we might have seen in the early years of the internet.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#204

Post by TacticalTable »

shpx wrote: post #72
MiroF wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i guess i was naive in thinking i was the only one!

It's just a matter of time until the "marketers" catch on. Maybe they already know and just haven't found a way to prove the business case because there's no easy way to measure how much some locked Reddit thread from a few years ago influences buying decisions. I'm curious to see what kind of innuendo they invent for "astroturfing Reddit reviews".

They've definitely caught on. Depending on the community, lots of bots are appearing to shill for specific brands, some better than others. Example: /r/malelivingspace has a big interest in Eames Lounge Chairs, and every time they get mentioned, a few new accounts pop up like clockwork to say how much they love their specific brand censored replica lounger. A ton of other random sites get these astroturf responses too, if they talk about it.

The worst part is that if they were a bit more skilled about it, it would be indistinguishable from an actual recommendation. Give it another few years.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#205

Post by soulofmischief »

shadowgovt wrote: post #200
soulofmischief wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is positive, but it's hard to say if that positivity has outweighed the negativity that came after. You're conflating a change in leadership with a defect in the merit of anonymous discourse.

I'm not sure that's conflation. If everyone's anonymous, the only throttle / censorship / regulation / what have you is if the benevolent dictator decides to hit individual posts with the shut-up-stick (or ban IP addresses, which is ham-fisted but sure does temporarily silence someone). A change in leadership has immediate effect on the discourse, and not all anonymous discourse has equal merit (trading pedophilia po…

A change in leadership has immediate effect on the discourse

This is true for literally all online communities, anonymous communities are no different. Lack of leadership and failure to enforce rules always breaks a community down. So yes, you are indeed conflating these two separate issues.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#206

Post by gerbilly »

soulofmischief wrote: post #181
gerbilly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I'm an end user who refuses to pay for software. Why should I when all the tools I need are online for free?

Hi, I'm a broke American who would only eat organic, not buy cheap electronics from China, volunteer 6 hours a week, help out the homeless every Saturday, never use Uber, and take part in every major political protest.... just as soon as my government decides an economy functions better when the people who make it up aren't living on scraps. Ethical consumption under late-stage capitalism is a myth. It can't happen.…

> just as soon as my government decides an economy functions better when the people who make it up aren't living on scraps.

The economy is functioning exactly as intended, I'm afraid.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#207

Post by soulofmischief »

gerbilly wrote: post #206
soulofmischief wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I'm a broke American who would only eat organic, not buy cheap electronics from China, volunteer 6 hours a week, help out the homeless every Saturday, never use Uber, and take part in every major political protest.... just as soon as my government decides an economy functions better when the people who make it up aren't living on scraps. Ethical consumption under late-stage capitalism is a myth. It can't happen.…

> just as soon as my government decides an economy functions better when the people who make it up aren't living on scraps. The economy is functioning exactly as intended, I'm afraid.

The classic case of design vs implementation. :)

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#208

Post by soulofmischief »

theNJR wrote: post #202
soulofmischief wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent misses the point. Hacker News is an example of what one specimen in a healthy ecosystem of forums would look like. However, we do not have a healthy ecosystem, and as such Hacker News comes off as oppressive to those with outlier opinions, because another forum of equal quality (both content and diversity of users), similar size and a similar topic of discourse doesn't really exist. Being banished from HN mean…

That's the nature of large groups of people though. If the outlier opinions have merit, shouldn't there be a forum for their expression?

I can only post 4 comments every two or so hours, effectively prohibiting me from most of the fast-paced front page discussion and overall prohibiting me from engaging.

Why? Because I likened whale poaching to genocide [0]. I didn't even believe I was sharing a controversial opinion, because apparently that is starting a flame war and I've been warned for it before after asking a relatively simple (and apparently naive) question about black holes and getting engaged by a vitriolic and hateful user who kept flagging me while simultaneously calling me names and hurling insults.

But here I am, because Reddit is garbage, 4chan has melted, and niche forums are dying and the bulk of communication is no longer taking place within them. And there are so many amazing and talented people to draw inspiration from on HN.

In my town's local subreddit, I am similarly severely limited to a few posts every couple of hours, because I voiced the opinion in what is apparently a majority conservative subreddit that someone was making racist, unempathetic comments regarding black people and pitbulls.

I'm considering going back to a bunch of email lists...

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20326029

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#209

Post by rhizome »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #110
rhizome wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Group iMessage = CC list, cc list becomes messaging group. I suppose one way this could play out would be simply to add an email submission API for text messaging app(s), but it's an incomplete idea so far. :)

I'm still not sure what you mean. Are you simply talking about an email client that looks like a text messaging program?

That's doable. The image in my mind was the reverse: a chat program that displays email threads. Interactions in chat become mailing list replies emailed out, and replies to the CC list are displayed in the chat channel.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#210

Post by Schwolop »

kickscondor wrote: post #108
eitland wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. I now have my own stupid blog again[0] trying to add some good old fun and weirdness to the web along with some hopefully useful or thought-provoking posts in between. I wish we could have a thread (possibly even a monthly thread here, like who is hiring) where people could mention their b…

Occasionally there is a thread for this (about every 6 months) and it also happens in the comments spontaneously (such as on this post.) Here's another example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20362319 I try to compile the sites that people list here: https://www.kickscondor.com/hrefhunt/ I will obviously be mining this thread. ;D

I write very irregularly, but on a variety of topics around engineering and management. I wrote an article today: http://www.drtomallen.com/blog/satificing-a-powerful-tool-fo...
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