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The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

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Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#191

Post by otter-in-a-suit »

nathell wrote: post #169
eitland wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. I now have my own stupid blog again[0] trying to add some good old fun and weirdness to the web along with some hopefully useful or thought-provoking posts in between. I wish we could have a thread (possibly even a monthly thread here, like who is hiring) where people could mention their b…

I've recently recreated my personal site and blogs[0] using a custom-tailored static site generator[1]. It felt good, like in the era of the Internet of creation. [0]: http://danieljanus.pl [1]: https://github.com/nathell/nhp

I've hosted my own website[0] and blog[1] for a while, but objectively, publishing a single article to medium - which i usually loathe - drastically increased my visibility.

Using DDG to search for my name, my website shows up as 3rd result, whereas on Google, the only reason I'm even on the first page is because I was published on Towards Data Science. So using one of the big players was the only realistic way to get some exposure for my tech-rants. It's a sad reality for me.

[0]: https://chollinger.com/ [1]: https://chollinger.com/blog/

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#192

Post by criddell »

buboard wrote: post #9
_8j50 wrote: post #5

I can accept some of what is said on this article but from a technical perspective the internet (imho) offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. I believe most of the shortcomings and abuse of the internet is a result of mass adoptation of the technology without correspnding legislature. Societies just haven't caught up with technology,even well seasoned technologists s…

> offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis etc etc in the year 2003. Not much has been added. Video is perhaps the only thing that we didnt have. A big deal but it s not everything. The main change was…

> Anecdotally, how many sites do you find yourselves browsing daily?

That's an interesting question. If you had asked how often do you use the web my answer would be all day, every day with multiple simultaneous connections.

But browsing? One or two places mostly out of habit and even the frequency of that is declining.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#193

Post by midnitewarrior »

aww_dang wrote: post #90

I skimmed the comments here. Then I skimmed the article. Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. The article is about a lawyer arguing for 'justice' through highly politicized language. YMMV, but I don't think "The Internet of creation" was hindered for want of lawyers, lobbyists or regulations. Similarly, sitting on the sidelines…

The Internet switched from contribution to consumption with the rise of mobile. Most users' main Internet device is a phone, not ideal for contributing meaningful content, but optimized for scrolling and media consumption.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#194

Post by Krasnol »

theNJR wrote: post #186
soulofmischief wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A slightly different take on Eternal September: In the old days, when you joined a community it could be very insular. That's okay, there were communities for everything and everyone. So you had to read the rules, learn the lingo, and shut up and lurk for a while so you didn't invoke the wrath of the mods. Or you were gone. Anti-social, attention-seeking, spammy, obnoxious or controlling behavior was simply not toler…

The reason most the web has been neutered is why Hacker News is so great. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259

/s?

There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions.

Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also.

This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#195

Post by soulofmischief »

shadowgovt wrote: post #183
soulofmischief wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of wonderful, wonderful things. Anonymous has roots in 4chan. A lot of amazing political activism has sprung from 4chan. And it was the seed for the entire meme culture which permeates the internet. At its peak, 4chan along with half a dozen other forums entirely contained the fountain of creativity from which the modern internet drew its inspiration. I have been visiting 4chan since elementary school, now well…

That is positive, but it's hard to say if that positivity has outweighed the negativity that came after. It's also hard to say If one can preserve such positivity in the absence of stronger moderation. In fact, as you indicated, one of 4chan's failings was a lack of proper moderation after moot left. History has indicated time and again that you cannot trust a "benevolent dictator" model for sustained positive outcom…

That is positive, but it's hard to say if that positivity has outweighed the negativity that came after.

You're conflating a change in leadership with a defect in the merit of anonymous discourse.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#196

Post by jjjbokma »

eitland wrote: post #99
aww_dang wrote: post #90

I skimmed the comments here. Then I skimmed the article. Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. The article is about a lawyer arguing for 'justice' through highly politicized language. YMMV, but I don't think "The Internet of creation" was hindered for want of lawyers, lobbyists or regulations. Similarly, sitting on the sidelines…

> Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. I now have my own stupid blog again[0] trying to add some good old fun and weirdness to the web along with some hopefully useful or thought-provoking posts in between. I wish we could have a thread (possibly even a monthly thread here, like who is hiring) where people could mention their b…

I started a tumblelog [0] a few months ago. And of course I wrote the static site generator for it myself :-) [1]. I like it, it reminds me of the Internet nearly 2 decades ago.

[0] http://plurrrr.com/

[1] https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#197

Post by jjjbokma »

eitland wrote: post #99
aww_dang wrote: post #90

I skimmed the comments here. Then I skimmed the article. Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. The article is about a lawyer arguing for 'justice' through highly politicized language. YMMV, but I don't think "The Internet of creation" was hindered for want of lawyers, lobbyists or regulations. Similarly, sitting on the sidelines…

> Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. I now have my own stupid blog again[0] trying to add some good old fun and weirdness to the web along with some hopefully useful or thought-provoking posts in between. I wish we could have a thread (possibly even a monthly thread here, like who is hiring) where people could mention their b…

I just started https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21324420

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#198

Post by soulofmischief »

Krasnol wrote: post #194
theNJR wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason most the web has been neutered is why Hacker News is so great. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259

/s? There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions. Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also. This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.

Parent misses the point. Hacker News is an example of what one specimen in a healthy ecosystem of forums would look like.

However, we do not have a healthy ecosystem, and as such Hacker News comes off as oppressive to those with outlier opinions, because another forum of equal quality (both content and diversity of users), similar size and a similar topic of discourse doesn't really exist. Being banished from HN means being banished from what some consider to be the upper echelons of discussion around the tech and startup scene.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#199

Post by rootsudo »

midnitewarrior wrote: post #193
aww_dang wrote: post #90

I skimmed the comments here. Then I skimmed the article. Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. The article is about a lawyer arguing for 'justice' through highly politicized language. YMMV, but I don't think "The Internet of creation" was hindered for want of lawyers, lobbyists or regulations. Similarly, sitting on the sidelines…

The Internet switched from contribution to consumption with the rise of mobile. Most users' main Internet device is a phone, not ideal for contributing meaningful content, but optimized for scrolling and media consumption.

This is an excellent way to frame it and why I hate mobile devices.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#200

Post by shadowgovt »

soulofmischief wrote: post #195
shadowgovt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is positive, but it's hard to say if that positivity has outweighed the negativity that came after. It's also hard to say If one can preserve such positivity in the absence of stronger moderation. In fact, as you indicated, one of 4chan's failings was a lack of proper moderation after moot left. History has indicated time and again that you cannot trust a "benevolent dictator" model for sustained positive outcom…

That is positive, but it's hard to say if that positivity has outweighed the negativity that came after. You're conflating a change in leadership with a defect in the merit of anonymous discourse.

I'm not sure that's conflation. If everyone's anonymous, the only throttle / censorship / regulation / what have you is if the benevolent dictator decides to hit individual posts with the shut-up-stick (or ban IP addresses, which is ham-fisted but sure does temporarily silence someone).

A change in leadership has immediate effect on the discourse, and not all anonymous discourse has equal merit (trading pedophilia pornography being an obvious example of discourse that is more or less universally identified as negative merit). So a change in leadership changes the merit of the discourse that leadership wields a shut-up-stick over.

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