Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 229 posts

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#101

Post by rodgerd »

iikoolpp wrote: post #94
spectramax wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is bas…

> you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture Are you talking about a different Switzerland than everyone else? A country literally made out of three different cultures (French Swiss, German Swiss and Italian Swiss)?

He's trying to hide his racism.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#102

Post by chipotle_coyote »

briandear wrote: post #86
Zarath wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a trick question in so many ways. Almost every single company in the country pays less than Google. So you could say the same about any non-unionized company too. If unions arose out of poor working conditions then it probably follows that salaries for that work were poor. Just because you make a lot of money, doesn't mean you're not being underpaid or exploited. These software companies aren't some of the mo…

> Just because you make a lot of money, doesn't mean you're not being underpaid or exploited. If you are a Google engineer, you can go work for literally anyone else if you feel you are underpaid and exploited. It isn’t like Google is the only buyer of labor in that market. Some chicken processing plant in Iowa — that might be a different conversation, but this is Google. If you feel you are underpaid, then leave. Go…

So here's something I always wonder about when I see arguments that unions aren't necessary at tech companies like Google because the workers are highly compensated and presumably well-treated: if we're all sure that's objectively the case, then why should management fight unionization efforts? Aren't they confident that the union isn't going to come in and say, "Yeah, actually you guys are pretty good, carry on?" If not, why not?

And, yes, one answer is "if there are no reasonable demands to be made, the union will make unreasonable ones," and sure, that's possible. Maybe newly-unionized employees will suddenly demand double bonuses, three months' paid vacation a year, and free ice cream for life. But I'm not convinced that's the real worry.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#103

Post by anon73044 »

hnaccy wrote: post #8
walshemj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to my mate at BT (with union regontion) who made £125k tax free on his final sharesave. And Google Et Al only give "free" food as the IRS doesn't tax it as a benefit in kind - quite why they don't as it would be an easy tax to collect.

I thought IRS started taxing the free food? Bummed me out, since I love it as a perk.

https://blog.namely.com/tax-reform-takes-a-bite-out-of-offic... vs https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/benefits/pa...

hard to tell what's accurate these days

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#104

Post by H8crilA »

vkaku wrote: post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

I'd vote for everyone who has a reasonable plan of more scrutiny towards 40 hour work weeks.

This may reduce salaries but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow. Let's have a life now! When are you going to enjoy life, after retirement? Would you wait with sex till after retirement, too, if that offered a salary increase?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#105

Post by AnimalMuppet »

claudiawerner wrote: post #83
tdb7893 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that HN often aligns with more Libertarian ideologies in the comment section.

I upvoted your comment, but only because I think it agrees with the person you're replying to.

"Libertarian ideology" = "bootlicker" to you? I question the validity of your classification system.

Or did I misunderstand your comment?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#106

Post by chipotle_coyote »

stvswn wrote: post #97
claudeganon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing to me how much Americans have swallowed this kind of “they deserve it,” management line. People seem to immediately imagine themselves as executives in the boardroom, quashing the rebellion before it begins. As others have pointed out, protections for organizing at workplace sites are common through out Europe. Google employees built Google into what it is, not their senior management (especially given w…

It's amazing to me how much Europeans do not identify with management, as if management is a class separate from them and not just people who were like them before getting promoted. Do Europeans see themselves as confined in their careers to a "class," and not invested in the competitiveness and profitability of the company they've voluntarily joined? I'm sure these sorts of things are more common in Europe, and it's…

The concerns of management are not identical to the concerns of employees, even in white-collar jobs. This isn't a moral judgement, it's just business reality.

For instance, labor is always a cost center. The argument "I cost X but bring in 10X" is great for you (assuming it's true), but from your accounting department's standpoint, replacing you with two less productive workers is better if it turns out that together they cost 1.6X but bring in 18X. This calculation doesn't change a whit even if all your company's top-level executives started in the mail room.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#107

Post by AnimalMuppet »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
Kalium wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live and let live, right? Some people are leery about the possibility of their employer turning into a closed shop. I know I would not be happy if my employer suddenly turned into a union shop in a way that strongly affected me and gave me minimal choice in the matter. I only ask that you consider why people might choose to sit on the sidelines.

Based on my experience, people sit on the sidelines because they're comfortable. People advocating for change should be polite first, and then not polite if politeness fails.

So you plan to force me into accepting your position if I don't take it when you ask nicely? I'd say you're already not polite.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#108

Post by 0xEFF »

hnaccy wrote: post #8
walshemj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to my mate at BT (with union regontion) who made £125k tax free on his final sharesave. And Google Et Al only give "free" food as the IRS doesn't tax it as a benefit in kind - quite why they don't as it would be an easy tax to collect.

I thought IRS started taxing the free food? Bummed me out, since I love it as a perk.

Yes, free meals are taxed. The worker's employer receives the 1099. For FTE's Google pays the tax, for TVC's their employer receives a 1099-MISC each year.

This is why you'll notice all US based offices require you to badge in every meal every time while an office in Canada does not.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#109

Post by okr »

H8crilA wrote: post #104
vkaku wrote: post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

I'd vote for everyone who has a reasonable plan of more scrutiny towards 40 hour work weeks. This may reduce salaries but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow. Let's have a life now! When are you going to enjoy life, after retirement? Would you wait with sex till after retirement, too, if that offered a salary increase?

You can not reduce your 40 hour week? I know of at least two companies in Berlin, one of it is the one i work in, that are pretty flexible regarding the 40 hour week.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#110

Post by drewbug01 »

marmada wrote: post #100

Wouldn't unions at Google be bad. If unions imposed rules guaranteeing seniority benefits/tenure rules that would make it harder for younger workers. I am a fan of unions for blue collar work but unions/labor orgs for higher pay organizations seem to be bad because they prevent foreign workers from entering and they make it harder for young people.

Unions - at least under US law - are not required to impose seniority rules. Unions which have done so have those rules because at some point, the union’s membership wanted it.
Post reply on HN