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Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

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Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#91

Post by nradov »

shantly wrote: post #40
vowelless wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Or not. Curious what others think.

The usual counterexamples are sports player and actors' unions. Even in less glamorous areas, union doesn't always equal salary cap or salary bands or whatever. Usually their main concerns are setting a pay floor and stopping abuse / forcing humane treatment.

SAG-AFTRA was notoriously silent for years during the #MeToo "casting couch" abuses. The union was apparently cozy with powerful entertainment industry players and did little to protect their members.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#92

Post by souprock »

BeetleB wrote: post #43
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

> I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I don't see us getting that. I'd love to make twice as much money. I don't see that happening. I'd love for promotions and hiring to be more fair / better, but I don't see how this accomplishes that (nor do I know anyway to improve it). Not at Google so I can't comment about them directly. Also very neutral on unions, so don't take this comment as my preference.…

Maybe the problem is job hopping. I got 5 weeks after being with the employer for a decade. I might be close to getting 6 weeks.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#93

Post by vinay427 »

spectramax wrote: post #80
jeffrallen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is not in the EU.

Yea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is bas…

As someone now living in Switzerland, I've found it largely futile trying to explain anything about Switzerland to most non-Europeans. For starters, no one seems to bother with what countries are in the EU, let alone the EEA, let alone where Switzerland is in all of this. Apparently "everyone in Europe" has free government-paid healthcare and never has to pay for any medical expenses. I could go on...

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#94

Post by iikoolpp »

spectramax wrote: post #80
jeffrallen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is not in the EU.

Yea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is bas…

> you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture

Are you talking about a different Switzerland than everyone else? A country literally made out of three different cultures (French Swiss, German Swiss and Italian Swiss)?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#95

Post by unethical_ban »

dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

As opposed to the anti-union propaganda handed to management, fed down to workers, every day in corporate America?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#96

Post by eecc »

vkou wrote: post #58
tdb7893 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that HN often aligns with more Libertarian ideologies in the comment section.

I can't take that claim too seriously, because a real Libertarian would welcome a free, and non-coercive association between employees as much as they welcome the free, and completely non-coercive association between an employee, and their employer... (I am, of course, not at all coerced to work under the conditions my employer sets upon me!) But for some reason, many Libertarians have nothing but contempt for the fo…

Well, non-coercive association between employee and employer... let's talk about job-market monopsony and its distortions thereof. (I'm starting to use this "market-distortion" framing for class struggle.)

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#97

Post by stvswn »

claudeganon wrote: post #42
dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

It’s amazing to me how much Americans have swallowed this kind of “they deserve it,” management line. People seem to immediately imagine themselves as executives in the boardroom, quashing the rebellion before it begins. As others have pointed out, protections for organizing at workplace sites are common through out Europe. Google employees built Google into what it is, not their senior management (especially given w…

It's amazing to me how much Europeans do not identify with management, as if management is a class separate from them and not just people who were like them before getting promoted. Do Europeans see themselves as confined in their careers to a "class," and not invested in the competitiveness and profitability of the company they've voluntarily joined?

I'm sure these sorts of things are more common in Europe, and it's amazing to me how Europeans don't independently realize that it's not a coincidence that the battle lines are about trying to exact concessions from American companies, since there aren't really any relevant European tech companies anyway.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#98

Post by rospaya »

spectramax wrote: post #80
jeffrallen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is not in the EU.

Yea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is bas…

> For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million.

Percentage wise, the Swiss have more immigrants, more foreigners and more people with immigrant backgrounds. Not to mention the whole "four official languages" thing.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#99

Post by Porthos9K »

eecc wrote: post #96
vkou wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't take that claim too seriously, because a real Libertarian would welcome a free, and non-coercive association between employees as much as they welcome the free, and completely non-coercive association between an employee, and their employer... (I am, of course, not at all coerced to work under the conditions my employer sets upon me!) But for some reason, many Libertarians have nothing but contempt for the fo…

Well, non-coercive association between employee and employer... let's talk about job-market monopsony and its distortions thereof. (I'm starting to use this "market-distortion" framing for class struggle.)

Can we start by suggesting that if you don't have "fuck-you money", you aren't free?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#100

Post by marmada »

Wouldn't unions at Google be bad. If unions imposed rules guaranteeing seniority benefits/tenure rules that would make it harder for younger workers.

I am a fan of unions for blue collar work but unions/labor orgs for higher pay organizations seem to be bad because they prevent foreign workers from entering and they make it harder for young people.

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