Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#41

Post by memmcgee »

Kalium wrote: post #28
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Wait until you hear how well the rich assholes that profit off your work live.

Wait until you find out how far the pay of those rich assholes goes when you spread it around! There are good arguments to be made for unionization. That some people make more - sometimes substantially more - isn't always one of them. Certainly trying to stoke anger might not always be the best of all available ways to win over people trying to be thoughtful.

Executive salaries aren't the same thing as the surplus value extracted from your labor. If that was spread equally, each employee would make considerably more.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#42

Post by claudeganon »

dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

It’s amazing to me how much Americans have swallowed this kind of “they deserve it,” management line. People seem to immediately imagine themselves as executives in the boardroom, quashing the rebellion before it begins.

As others have pointed out, protections for organizing at workplace sites are common through out Europe. Google employees built Google into what it is, not their senior management (especially given what has come to light). And the company would be better off if workers co-determined its future.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#43

Post by BeetleB »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

> I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I don't see us getting that. I'd love to make twice as much money. I don't see that happening. I'd love for promotions and hiring to be more fair / better, but I don't see how this accomplishes that (nor do I know anyway to improve it).

Not at Google so I can't comment about them directly.

Also very neutral on unions, so don't take this comment as my preference.

6 weeks may seem hard to get, but many companies offer only 2 weeks, and 3 weeks seems the norm. 4 weeks seems doable with a union (although it may not be necessary - more and more companies are offering 4 weeks).

Non-compete clauses are something unions can help with (I know they're not allowed in CA, but lots of other states allow them).

The amount of time or how often one is on-call can be something unions can help with.

Conditions for severance can be something unions can help with.

On the flip side, unions can also make things a lot worse. YMMV.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#44

Post by UncleMeat »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

Pay is not the only thing.

There could be an employee elected board that is able to resolve things like disputes with managers. It's clear that there have been situations where HR is no help here. There could be agitation for greater transparency with perf, especially around things like promo quotas and ratings distributions.

Unions aren't just about pay.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#45

Post by ocdtrekkie »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

Those "levels" end up being oddly sexist at times. For instance, one of the women who sued Google for wage discrimination (Kelli Wisuri) was hired at L2, while male hires with similar or lesser experience were hired directly into L3 or above. And she and most of the women in her team were placed in a non-commission role, while working with men who gained commission on top of their salary.

Source, page 11 of https://googlegendercase.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Elli...

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#46

Post by tastythrowaway »

vowelless wrote: post #26
philipov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Why not? Such a vague claim needs substantiation.

It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Or not. Curious what others think.

One major thing stifling tech salaries in recent memory was the tech companies themselves:

https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#47

Post by kick »

kodablah wrote: post #39
kick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight days ago on Hacker News: Yup. Happened to me. Big corporate decided most of our floor were surplus to requirements. Got an email on Sunday telling us to be in early on Monday for an off-site meeting. Got handed my redundancy / compromise agreement and told not to return to the office. And, the kicker, told my non-compete meant I couldn't work for a competitor during the redundancy process. It was devastating an…

> That layoff was the best thing to happen to me. Shook me out of my cosy job, forced me into building my own consultancy, and taught me the power of solidarity. This last part sounds like an argument against unions. One wonders, had the commenter worked in an environment where layoffs/firings aren't worth it due to externalities (and therefore never really happen), whether they'd rethink.

That last part sounds like an argument for. If not for the benefits he got from the union, the very last claim wouldn't have happened, and the second to last claim might not have been possible.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#48

Post by tdb7893 »

Porthos9K wrote: post #38
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pro-union propaganda party Typically you just say "organizing".

This should not be grayed, but HN is full of bootlickers.

My experience is that HN often aligns with more Libertarian ideologies in the comment section.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#49

Post by moate »

kodablah wrote: post #39
kick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight days ago on Hacker News: Yup. Happened to me. Big corporate decided most of our floor were surplus to requirements. Got an email on Sunday telling us to be in early on Monday for an off-site meeting. Got handed my redundancy / compromise agreement and told not to return to the office. And, the kicker, told my non-compete meant I couldn't work for a competitor during the redundancy process. It was devastating an…

> That layoff was the best thing to happen to me. Shook me out of my cosy job, forced me into building my own consultancy, and taught me the power of solidarity. This last part sounds like an argument against unions. One wonders, had the commenter worked in an environment where layoffs/firings aren't worth it due to externalities (and therefore never really happen), whether they'd rethink.

Just trying to understand: you think that somehow unions make it EASIER to layoff/fire someone? That management would somehow assume it's easier/less costly to fire people when they know those people will have a lawyer review the terms of their termination? That management would be less inclined to attempt including illegal non-competes?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#50

Post by [deleted] »

vkaku wrote: post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN