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Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

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Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#21

Post by pavlov »

dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

I don't know about Switzerland, but most European countries have laws that explicitly require companies to permit unions to operate on company property.

Many countries even mandate that stewards (union representatives) must be allowed to spend part of their working time on union work.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#22

Post by Zarath »

esoterica wrote: post #15
minikites wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course, union members with workplace protections don't usually get stock grants, free food, and a free gym. The reason Google provides those things is because someone crunched the numbers and determined that it was a cheaper way to get employees to work free overtime compared to higher salaries.

How many unionized companies pay higher salaries than Google?

This is a trick question in so many ways.

Almost every single company in the country pays less than Google. So you could say the same about any non-unionized company too.

If unions arose out of poor working conditions then it probably follows that salaries for that work were poor.

Just because you make a lot of money, doesn't mean you're not being underpaid or exploited. These software companies aren't some of the most profitable companies in the world for no reason.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#23

Post by s3nnyy »

pavlov wrote: post #21
dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

I don't know about Switzerland, but most European countries have laws that explicitly require companies to permit unions to operate on company property. Many countries even mandate that stewards (union representatives) must be allowed to spend part of their working time on union work.

Unions in Switzerland are not very common compared to France or Germany.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#24

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

I'd ask only that you not impede those who do believe in more workplace protections and benefits while they get that work done (ideally locked in with labor law, along with strong unions). I'm sure a two day weekend and 40 hour work week was once thought of as impossible as well.

I'm not impeding. And I could get behind it. I just don't see what realistically it can accomplish.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#25

Post by kick »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

Eight days ago on Hacker News:

Yup. Happened to me. Big corporate decided most of our floor were surplus to requirements. Got an email on Sunday telling us to be in early on Monday for an off-site meeting.

Got handed my redundancy / compromise agreement and told not to return to the office. And, the kicker, told my non-compete meant I couldn't work for a competitor during the redundancy process.

It was devastating and emotionally wrecking. It was like being dumped, out of the blue, from a multi-year relationship. And being told you couldn't see anyone else. I went through all the classic stages of grief.

And then...

I contacted my Trade Union and explained the situation. They took a look at the contract I'd been given, passed it to a very expensive lawyer, who made a couple of phone calls.

The next week I was free to work for whoever I wanted and was paid ~7 months salary (tax free).

Join. A. Union.

Your employer has more lawyers than you do. Pay a couple of quid per month to have decent legal representation on hand when you need it.

That layoff was the best thing to happen to me. Shook me out of my cosy job, forced me into building my own consultancy, and taught me the power of solidarity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21242176

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#26

Post by vowelless »

philipov wrote: post #18
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

> I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Why not? Such a vague claim needs substantiation.

It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes.

Or not. Curious what others think.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#27

Post by Kalium »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

I'd ask only that you not impede those who do believe in more workplace protections and benefits while they get that work done (ideally locked in with labor law, along with strong unions). I'm sure a two day weekend and 40 hour work week was once thought of as impossible as well.

Live and let live, right?

Some people are leery about the possibility of their employer turning into a closed shop. I know I would not be happy if my employer suddenly turned into a union shop in a way that strongly affected me and gave me minimal choice in the matter.

I only ask that you consider why people might choose to sit on the sidelines.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#28

Post by Kalium »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #20
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16

I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…

> we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Wait until you hear how well the rich assholes that profit off your work live.

Wait until you find out how far the pay of those rich assholes goes when you spread it around!

There are good arguments to be made for unionization. That some people make more - sometimes substantially more - isn't always one of them. Certainly trying to stoke anger might not always be the best of all available ways to win over people trying to be thoughtful.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#29

Post by toomuchtodo »

Kalium wrote: post #27
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ask only that you not impede those who do believe in more workplace protections and benefits while they get that work done (ideally locked in with labor law, along with strong unions). I'm sure a two day weekend and 40 hour work week was once thought of as impossible as well.

Live and let live, right? Some people are leery about the possibility of their employer turning into a closed shop. I know I would not be happy if my employer suddenly turned into a union shop in a way that strongly affected me and gave me minimal choice in the matter. I only ask that you consider why people might choose to sit on the sidelines.

Based on my experience, people sit on the sidelines because they're comfortable. People advocating for change should be polite first, and then not polite if politeness fails.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#30

Post by CydeWeys »

s3nnyy wrote: post #23
pavlov wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Switzerland, but most European countries have laws that explicitly require companies to permit unions to operate on company property. Many countries even mandate that stewards (union representatives) must be allowed to spend part of their working time on union work.

Unions in Switzerland are not very common compared to France or Germany.

More than half of Swiss workers are covered by collective bargaining agreements. That's much higher than in the US at least; not sure about France/Germany.
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