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When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

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201–210 of 233 posts

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for-profit healthcare is immoral, wasteful, and inevitably results in scenarios like the above. A Bismarck system (nonprofit govt sponsored insurance companies that all charge the same and are taken by all doctors) would be fine too, but that's not on the table in the US

I mostly agree with what you're saying. however I am concerned that sudden and large changes to critical components of America will 1) be hard to do right and 2) create a lot of dissent from people who think differently. remember healthcare.gov? we were pretty glad we had other redundancies from day 1! it takes time to build a system and in my (granted unrelated) experience, big changes are best done in small steps

healthcare.gov had difficulty because it was so complicated, with layers of byzantine qualifications, exceptions, and requirements.

There is no healthcare system less complicated than "medicare pays for everything"

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#202
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is completely fine. You'd rather be ruled by a credentialed class that could have opinions completely divorced from reality? The law is supposed to be human and obvious. Any case that "requires" a JD and ten years experience is likely full of trash.

If the law was human and obvious we wouldn't need lawyers in the first place. The system as it is is already complex enough that someone without a law degree would have great difficulty navigating it. Having uncredentialed judges won't make the laws simpler they'll just make an already dysfunctional system even worst.

There is no inherent need for lawyers; that one is required to navigate a legal system reflects poorly on it.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#203
post #186
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not really refuting my point...by that logic the entire world should have one big shared risk pool, it’s just math! My point is that you can have adequate risk pools at a lower administrative level (the states), while not having to deal with having to build up political will among a large, heterogenous polity.

That's because I'm not arguing with you. It is a complex topic, and the variety of "solutions" to the problem give us a lot to chew on. I don't personally think that's optimal - there are a number of problems US states have that nation-states don't. (Deficit financing, exclusion and latitude to make its own rules being larger ones.) Also, one cost of running "laboratories of democracy" is that some of them fail, and…

> Also, one cost of running "laboratories of democracy" is that some of them fail, and some of them are run incompetently or corruptly or cruelly.

That is true of nation states as well, and yet we trust them with sovereignty.

In our Union, states have to abide by a baseline set of rules per the Federal Constitution (free speech, right to a fair trial, equal protection before the law, etc). US States aren’t run by Kings and Queens, they’re democracies with checks and balances, state Constitutions, judiciaries, legislatures, and executive agencies.

Insofar as a state would be run corruptly or cruelly, it would be the will of the people of those states.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#204
post #168
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my travels getting a long term residency visa requires a medical exam. I’m not sure how people think immigration in other countries work but it’s not as simple as showing up at the airport.

If you're moving because you're probably going to die if you don't, does it really matter whether or not you're doing so legally or not? It's really easy to remain in EU forever as an illegal immigrant, in some places your immigration status will have no effect on your access to free healthcare.

I've met many illegal aliens in the EU. It's not an easy life. Yes, you could move to one of the EU countries, clandestine. You would give up up a lot to do so. Access to work would be "on the black." Access to housing would be restricted to sublets with multiple roommates, who are also in the same illegal immigrants. A good friend of mine, without papers, was living 10+ people in a 2 bedroom flat. Everything he owned had to fit in a dufflebag. Not everyone from developed countries is willing to make that sacrifice for the potential access to better healthcare. If you came from a poor country, though, it's a big step up.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with what you're saying. however I am concerned that sudden and large changes to critical components of America will 1) be hard to do right and 2) create a lot of dissent from people who think differently. remember healthcare.gov? we were pretty glad we had other redundancies from day 1! it takes time to build a system and in my (granted unrelated) experience, big changes are best done in small steps

healthcare.gov had difficulty because it was so complicated, with layers of byzantine qualifications, exceptions, and requirements. There is no healthcare system less complicated than "medicare pays for everything"

There are arguments to be made for medicare-for-all, but that it is the absolute minimally complicated solution is observably incorrect. One counterexample suffices to dispel a claim of being the least member of a set.

For example, the healthcare system the USA had for well past the first half of the 20th century was "pay workers a middle class wage and control costs so the average family can afford housing and pay for medical care for their 5 kids. And then send them to college after." Nothing is simpler than to be told the price of the service ahead of time and then pay for it. I know this because my father lived through it. He was the child of dirt poor immigrants, only got a high school diploma thanks to being drafted out of college, and still managed to pay for medical care for a wife and six children. He told me about how insurance started as just catastrophe coverage, and then just grew and grew until the entire system became the morass of red tape, inefficiency, and rent-seeking it is today. Just like with student loans, having the monetary sovereign spend money into existence (directly or through high interest loan guarantees) will inevitably wildly inflate prices in the affected sector. To an extent it already has.

This isn't a simple static system. If it were, then sure "government pays for everything, good to go" would be correct. Unfortunately the reality is that it's a dynamic system, and providing a payment guarantee with politically determined pricing is "government pays for everything, so now every middle-man, lobbyist, special interest, rent-seeker, and every other assorted grifter is going to wet his beak". And that's just the beginning of the higher order consequences. Maybe medicare-for-all is a good choice, I just don't know. And I won't know until I see a cogent, rigorous, and complete analysis of the second order and higher effects of the policy change. I'm not aware of anyone offering that analysis.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#206
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration and cross-border trade is free in the EU, and yet healthcare is a member-state level issue. In India, healthcare is explicitly a state issue, not a Union issue.

At a glance, it looks like both have mandates of some sort that keep states/countries from going full-on free rider, which is what I expected.

Right, the US-equivalent would be for States to tie their welfare programs to state residency, which is totally reasonable and within the realm of possibility.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#207
“ More than half of the debt in collections stems from medical care, which, unlike most other debt, is often taken on without a choice or an understanding of the costs. Since the Affordable Care Act of 2010, prices for medical services have ballooned; insurers have nearly tripled deductibles — the amount a person pays before their coverage kicks in — and raised premiums and copays, as well. As a result, tens of millions of people without adequate coverage are expected to pay larger portions of their rising bills.”

ACA has been yet another screwup on top of the cluster-Fsck that is the US health care healthcare system. Medicare can’t even force payment restrIctions or transparency. It’s not in politicians interest to fix it - they raise all their money by either running on medical reform(fixing it would take that issue and revenue stream off the money) or protecting it. Why else do you think that a supermajority under Obama made the problem worse?

It’s time to form a separate states controlled mechanism for doing this. The federal government has proven to be either completely and totally inept, or corrupt beyond all imagination.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicaid as it exists denies a lot of people for various reasons. It has poor coverage and providers aren't obligated to take it so many do not. Simply closing the AHCA/Medicaid gap in the red states who refused to do so years ago isn't going to change much overall and is quite a hollow "victory" for those states.

I read back some of your history. I hope the dark clouds break in your life and you get some much needed warm rays of hope. It’s sad what happens to people in this country stuck in the kafkaesque twilight of our medical system. And then to be rejected by friends and family... “Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you?”

Thank you for your kindness, but it won't happen. It's not happened in all these years and the need and issues are worse now. If I had been born in the first world with a proper social safety net I would have had help rebuilding from the start of this, and support to survive were that not possible. I've known people in my shoes who have that safety and live because of it. In this country its all about profits and if you aren't a producer of profits you don't get the privilege of life. I have to accept its over. All resisting that and fighting does it take more away and make the end worse and take away more agency. I can't stand anymore "Praying to Jesus changed my life" or "just do this hard and unstable job that even a young healthy person struggles with" advices, and seeing how many people respond with arguments about how "the market" is the right answer without caring that human life is involved. I am sick of all of it.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#209
post #168
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my travels getting a long term residency visa requires a medical exam. I’m not sure how people think immigration in other countries work but it’s not as simple as showing up at the airport.

If you're moving because you're probably going to die if you don't, does it really matter whether or not you're doing so legally or not? It's really easy to remain in EU forever as an illegal immigrant, in some places your immigration status will have no effect on your access to free healthcare.

Because as someone said below it's not going to fix things just by being in another place I like better. Being illegal is a hard life with constant risk and lack of access to many things. It's not "really easy" at all and I don't know why anyone would think that. I need MORE stability than I have...not less. I said I am going to move because I refuse to die in this miserable country after what it's done to me. The only power I have left is to choose where it ends. It's not like I think moving will solve things in itself. I am in bad shape all around and am sick of suffering and the common response being to teach myself how to swim and get a job as a swim instructor as I am drowning. The clear lesson is society here thinks if you cannot produce consistently or enough for their ledger then you don't deserve to live. That's that.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#210
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived abroad in the past. Had a much better life and healthcare. But now that savings is so small and my health so limited I cannot just "move". I wouldn't be able to sustain myself financially. There are immigration requirements I cannot meet. I would love nothing more to leave. But even then things are so bad with pain and health I would never have a good life, maybe just a survivable one in a more comfortable en…

This is only one problem of many, so I definitely don't expect pointing this out to do anything to change your situation. >There are immigration requirements I cannot meet If you could vastly improve your life by moving, why would you let immigration laws stop you? It's really hard to get kicked out of the EU and you shouldn't have any issues with access to healthcare in places like Catalonia, Helsinki and I'm sure m…

Answered above. I cannot work in any consistent and significant way and without enough money and legal status none of the things you have when ill are available. It's not just about a location. I can't live rough or in an unstable situation. It's also not hard at all to be deported.
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