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Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

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Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#151
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. Dairy price would sky-rocket and become a luxury item, and few people would be able to afford it several times a day every day, as its so common today.

> One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. This is simply not true. What you probably mean is it is not possible to achieve the same results while not caring how it is done (ie. going about our lives). Throughout the history people relied on dairy way more…

You said it yourself:

> people choose the cheapest product the cows be damned.

When vfc1 says "One thing implies the other", the charitable interpretation of that statement is likely "given the way our society is structured at this time, it's inevitable that this result will obtain".

When taking care of cows means spending more money on their welfare than some competitor, and when people are willingly disinterested in the welfare of the cows whose milk they consume, we have a good-old-race-to-the-bottom.

The most powerful work I've read on the topic is the 1975 classic "Animal Liberation" by a philosopher Peter Singer. In it he uses excerpts from literature written by the industry (presumably the most-rosy picture you can find of the conditions of animals in the factory farms) to show how horrible the conditions are (and to make an argument why we ought to abstain from consuming and why we ought to try to dismantle the system).

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#152
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this common internet illusion that these things only happen in the US. It's a myth, of course, it absolutely happens in Europe too and everywhere in the western world. How could it not, its economics and its a business. The goal is to produce the maximum amount of dairy at the lowest possible price, to fulfill an ever-increasing demand. Maybe the agricultural factories are usually not of the same size as in…

I regularly order locally-produced milk from very small scale farmers that don't use any of the things you mention and it's nearly not the cost of a luxury item. I live in a huge city, too. So something must be off in what you're saying. I don't know why you show such certainty of tone, are you a specialist?

> I regularly order locally-produced milk from very small scale farmers

Not a specialist here, but I think I'm generally well informed and just trying to use some common sense. You probably pay a bit more for that milk than at the supermarket, right?

Most people in your country don't do what you do, they buy it at the supermarket. The dairy products at the supermarket simply don't come from those farms.

Do you think it would be possible for everyone in your city to consume milk that way?

Would there be enough farms to produce enough dairy that way at a reasonable price that most people would be ready to pay? I'm going to guess that probably not that would not be sustainable.

Still, in the end, the economic incentives for that farmer to produce more milk are the same. The farmer would be incentivized to use better milk yielding cows, get rid of the males, feed the cheapest possible food to the animals.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#153
post #54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, biodiversity in major crops is a serious problem. Global famine? Give me a break. That would require the failure of multiple crop species extending across thousands of miles. It's never happened in human history on that scale. Why would it now? Yes, losing all the Cavendish bananas would be really bad. But why would a superbug that takes out all the bananas have any effect on the corn, wheat, etc growing down th…

> But why would a superbug that takes out all the bananas have any effect on the corn, wheat, etc growing down the road? Simply, copies. If a superbug is able to destroy all the world's bananas, it would grow in population 1 million fold to do so. A bacteria or virus with a million times as many members will evolve a million times as quickly. Given such, a species jump wouldn't be hard to do. And after the first coup…

You seem to be acting under the assumption that virii are actively malicious things instead of mere self-propagating feedback loops. Propagation is what causes it to grow - killing its host is a dead end for growth.

This isn't Pandemic - there is no neural or neural analog on viruses - hell we couldn't even do that with networked nanomachines.

It would be far more plauisble for all housecats in the world to coordinate and plan the conquest of humanity as they at least have the ability to think and communicate.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#154
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can image cutting out meat from my diet, only thing I would really miss is the taste of chicken and maybe fish. Dairy on the other hand would be much much harder. Because I wouldn't just miss the taste but would have to change my entire diet.

Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent). So it's addictive in nature, this addition is probably meant to keep the calf close to the mother and away from harm. But the addiction can be easily broken and after a while you start finding cheese actually a bit gross because its essentially solid melting fat. As far as I know for…

>But the addiction can be easily broken and after a while you start finding cheese actually a bit gross because its essentially solid melting fat.

Out of the calories you get from (most) cheese half of it is fat and the other half protein. It's absolutely not just fat.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#155
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this common internet illusion that these things only happen in the US. It's a myth, of course, it absolutely happens in Europe too and everywhere in the western world. How could it not, its economics and its a business. The goal is to produce the maximum amount of dairy at the lowest possible price, to fulfill an ever-increasing demand. Maybe the agricultural factories are usually not of the same size as in…

I regularly order locally-produced milk from very small scale farmers that don't use any of the things you mention and it's nearly not the cost of a luxury item. I live in a huge city, too. So something must be off in what you're saying. I don't know why you show such certainty of tone, are you a specialist?

So, because you indulge in some tiny fringe practice -- the same thing my dad does in the USA --, you think "all of Europe" doesn't just buy milk in the supermarket?

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#156
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also pretty similar to human milk, which has evolved to be a close-to-perfect source of nutrition.

For babies, not for adults. Adult animals in most species can't even drink milk, they can't digest it anymore past infancy. Biologically this means that the infant would release the mother so that they could have another child, so there is biological adaption on most species to not drink milk past a certain age. And we have it too via lactose intolerance, which is normal. However, some relatively small percentage of…

> Human babies shouldn't drink cow's milk, it's completely unnecessary and there are questions about it's effect on long-term human health.

1. According to whom?

2. Can you name a type of food that has zero questions about its effect on long-term human health?

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#157
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can image cutting out meat from my diet, only thing I would really miss is the taste of chicken and maybe fish. Dairy on the other hand would be much much harder. Because I wouldn't just miss the taste but would have to change my entire diet.

Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent). So it's addictive in nature, this addition is probably meant to keep the calf close to the mother and away from harm. But the addiction can be easily broken and after a while you start finding cheese actually a bit gross because its essentially solid melting fat. As far as I know for…

>Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent). So it's addictive in nature

So is the following plant-based foods

Gluten exorphin (from gluten found in cereals wheat, rye, barley) Gliadorphin/gluteomorphin (from gluten found in cereals wheat, rye, barley) Soymorphin-5 (from soybean) Rubiscolin (from spinach)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_peptide#Opioid_food_pep...

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#158
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 2/3rds of China’s pork production is not modern. Too many humans involved and they roll out vaccines in 6 months rather than 3 weeks. For now it is just slow and uncoordinated problem solving.

Raising cows was still a pretty modern thing in the UK in the ‘80s and ‘90s but nevertheless they got hit hard by the Mad Cow Disease.

That was a prion disease. They were actively being stupid to try to save a quid and are still being punished in the markets for it.

It is like putting crocodiles in hotel rooms up an elevator or a foot high stack of stairs - too steep for them to climb on their own. If crocodiles eat people then it is clearly the fault of the people who put crocodiles in the hotel rooms in the first place because they couldn't get there on their own as they are aquatic ground clingers.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#159
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent). So it's addictive in nature, this addition is probably meant to keep the calf close to the mother and away from harm. But the addiction can be easily broken and after a while you start finding cheese actually a bit gross because its essentially solid melting fat. As far as I know for…

>Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent). So it's addictive in nature So is the following plant-based foods Gluten exorphin (from gluten found in cereals wheat, rye, barley) Gliadorphin/gluteomorphin (from gluten found in cereals wheat, rye, barley) Soymorphin-5 (from soybean) Rubiscolin (from spinach) https://en.wikipedia.…

And what about relative amounts? I would expect it to be more concentrated in cow's milk than in plants. It's usually the dosis that makes the poison so it would be interesting to know the amounts and its effects in humans.

I have a hard time thinking that wheat and barley are that addictive, cheese however I can see it as being quite addictive.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#160
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. This is simply not true. What you probably mean is it is not possible to achieve the same results while not caring how it is done (ie. going about our lives). Throughout the history people relied on dairy way more…

> There exists whole industry of keeping cows and producing diary in humane way. These are usually market gimmicks. They say a cow is pastured raised if they leave it out an hour a day, grass-fed if it gets fed half the diet in grass the other in grains, etc. The costs of raising cattle and producing dairy in that way would simply not allow to meet the demand and it will never happen. Factory farms are the reality of…

I always get my dairy local. Where I live I am lucky enough to have a family farm that services our area. The nice thing is that their milk isn't that much more than any of the name brands. Maybe 50 cents a gallon.

You can tour their farms and watch the process and they are very open about it.

http://debackerfamilydairy.com/

If we had more of these local farms servicing more areas it would definitely help reduce reliance on factory farms.

If you live in an urban/highly populated area I don't see anyway for a small farm like this to produce enough for the population.

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