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Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

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Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#141

Post by sgift »

navigatesol wrote: post #123
babuskov wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scientific studies show that humans barely absorb any of it, especially if pasteurized Link? > Even worse, milk increases calcium loss in bones, resulting in higher rates of fractures. I would love to read some serious research on this. Some 3-4 years ago I read similar advice, stopped drinking milk for about 5 months and started having serious problems with teeth which I never had before. Started drinking milk aga…

> I would love to read some serious research on this. Funny you ask for scientific research to support OP's argument, then you follow it up with a personal anecdote about milk fixing your teeth problem in a month (which it assuredly did not).

Nothing funny about it. One makes it clear it's a personal anecdote, the other states that "scientific studies show" - should be easy to show these studies then

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#142

Post by vfc1 »

throwawayfjlo wrote: post #132
vfc1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. Dairy price would sky-rocket and become a luxury item, and few people would be able to afford it several times a day every day, as its so common today.

European countries don't do any of the things described in GP yet most of us drink cheap milk everyday so something must be off in your analysis

There is this common internet illusion that these things only happen in the US. It's a myth, of course, it absolutely happens in Europe too and everywhere in the western world.

How could it not, its economics and its a business. The goal is to produce the maximum amount of dairy at the lowest possible price, to fulfill an ever-increasing demand.

Maybe the agricultural factories are usually not of the same size as in the US, but the techniques and the consequences are the same.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#143

Post by ntzm »

lexapro wrote: post #116
vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

I can image cutting out meat from my diet, only thing I would really miss is the taste of chicken and maybe fish. Dairy on the other hand would be much much harder. Because I wouldn't just miss the taste but would have to change my entire diet.

Awwww your poor little tastebuds :((((

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#144

Post by rgbrenner »

navigatesol wrote: post #123
babuskov wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scientific studies show that humans barely absorb any of it, especially if pasteurized Link? > Even worse, milk increases calcium loss in bones, resulting in higher rates of fractures. I would love to read some serious research on this. Some 3-4 years ago I read similar advice, stopped drinking milk for about 5 months and started having serious problems with teeth which I never had before. Started drinking milk aga…

> I would love to read some serious research on this. Funny you ask for scientific research to support OP's argument, then you follow it up with a personal anecdote about milk fixing your teeth problem in a month (which it assuredly did not).

when you eat and drink acid is produced that eats away at enamel.. and when you brush your teeth it also brushes away some enamel.

The reason your teeth still have enamel is that they are constantly being remineralized with minerals (including calcium) in your saliva being deposited on the top surface of the tooth.

If you consume less calcium, less calcium will be in your saliva, and that’ll slow that process down, while erosion continues normally (leading to sensitivity and eventually cavities)

if the problems he’s referring to are sensitivity (not related to gum disease), and he wasn’t getting enough calcium without milk, it’s quite possible that milk (calcium) reduced the sensitivity.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#145

Post by vfc1 »

lmilcin wrote: post #134
vfc1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. Dairy price would sky-rocket and become a luxury item, and few people would be able to afford it several times a day every day, as its so common today.

> One thing implies the other, as it's impossible to produce enough dairy for so many people using the methods you mention, that is why most dairy people consume comes from factory farms in the first place. This is simply not true. What you probably mean is it is not possible to achieve the same results while not caring how it is done (ie. going about our lives). Throughout the history people relied on dairy way more…

> There exists whole industry of keeping cows and producing diary in humane way.

These are usually market gimmicks. They say a cow is pastured raised if they leave it out an hour a day, grass-fed if it gets fed half the diet in grass the other in grains, etc.

The costs of raising cattle and producing dairy in that way would simply not allow to meet the demand and it will never happen. Factory farms are the reality of what it takes to produce dairy for so many people.

Ultimately, in the end the result the animal dies a horrible death after having lived often a horrible live, so there is nothing humane about that.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#146

Post by ryanmercer »

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

>This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do.

Nah, that would be the Cavendish banana as they are effectively all clones.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#147

Post by dsfyu404ed »

vfc1 wrote: post #69
londons_explore wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also pretty similar to human milk, which has evolved to be a close-to-perfect source of nutrition.

For babies, not for adults. Adult animals in most species can't even drink milk, they can't digest it anymore past infancy. Biologically this means that the infant would release the mother so that they could have another child, so there is biological adaption on most species to not drink milk past a certain age. And we have it too via lactose intolerance, which is normal. However, some relatively small percentage of…

>For babies, not for adults.

There's an entire class of people called "children" who are neither babies nor adults who can benefit from drinking milk (or any other good source of calcium).

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#148

Post by bluGill »

classxteve wrote: post #107

This guy who said "don't stop drinking milk because some random person on the internet said so". Dude, really need to get with common sense. Research can and is skewed everyday. You want research? Go to the factory farms where these animals suffer and die each day so you can have your milk and yogurt and whey protein trash. Don't rely on someone to spoon feed you. This is corporate manipulation at Amazon scale. Get w…

I have gone to those farms. Cows die nearly everyday because there are 3000 of them on the farm and their lifespan is 5-7 years, so the numbers work out that way (in the wild it would be less). Otherwise they live in clean barns that are not too hot, have plenty of food and otherwise have an easy life. Boring perhaps, but it isn't cruel despite what you might be manipulated into thinking.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#149

Post by throwawaygkdpvp »

vfc1 wrote: post #142
throwawayfjlo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European countries don't do any of the things described in GP yet most of us drink cheap milk everyday so something must be off in your analysis

There is this common internet illusion that these things only happen in the US. It's a myth, of course, it absolutely happens in Europe too and everywhere in the western world. How could it not, its economics and its a business. The goal is to produce the maximum amount of dairy at the lowest possible price, to fulfill an ever-increasing demand. Maybe the agricultural factories are usually not of the same size as in…

I regularly order locally-produced milk from very small scale farmers that don't use any of the things you mention and it's nearly not the cost of a luxury item. I live in a huge city, too. So something must be off in what you're saying. I don't know why you show such certainty of tone, are you a specialist?

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#150

Post by vfc1 »

rgbrenner wrote: post #135
vfc1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to that at all, of course. First of all, nobody really knows how much calcium you really need per day, all those estimates are ballpark estimates at best. The estimates of 1000mg or more have been pushed for decades by the dairy industry. You can get calcium from greens like kale etc. eat a bit of brocolli, eat pulses like beans and lentils, use tahini as a sauce, drink fortified plant-milk. Just eat a…

“ drink fortified plant-milk” “ You can get all the nutrients that you need, calcium included from a plant-based diet. The only thing you need to supplement is B12” Plant based milk is fortified with calcium carbonate. You just told us to take a calcium supplement added to a liquid. That’s admitting it’s not possible to get enough calcium from plants. With that logic there’s a lot of food we don’t need.. everyone jus…

I don't think you need fortified milk either, but if you are worried about it you can take it, that's what I meant.

There is no indication of lack of calcium in vegetarians or vegans, many studies have shown it.

Most likely, its your expectation of how much calcium is actually needed and how essential dairy is that has been shapped through years of advertising and missinformation.

Actually, its the opposite vegetarians and vegans have usually stronger bones. Dairy has been actually linked to more bone fractures in general - https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/01/31/why-is-milk-consumptio...

Eat a balanced whole food plant-based diet and you will be absolutely fine and actually much healthier in general than with a standard diet.

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