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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#161
post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

mine last week. it's been hard.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#162
> It may be tied to certain other psychological theories, like the terror management theory, Feltham says. Terror Management suggests that human nature is actually wired towards self-deception: In order to avoid facing terrifying concepts like death, most of us live in a state of self-delusion. And maybe, when we're depressed, we're just less likely to be deceived.

For what it's worth, Terror Management Theory has pretty much failed to replicate: https://psyarxiv.com/dkg53/ ("Failed pre-registered replication of mortality salience effects in traditional and novel measures")

Just one study, whole theory doesn't depend on one replication attempt, etc. -- but the baseline rate for a set of social psych findings being legit should probably be <50% at the outset.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#163
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad analogy that makes it sound like you're defending flat-earthers. It's like saying you use Hermeticism's Principle of Rhythm to build a pendulum-powered clock... And unlike both Flat-Earth theory and Hermetics, Newton was actually demonstrably right . Flat-earthers and Hermeticists spin their theories out of whole cloth.

The shape of the Earth is just a model [1] - an approximation. All models have margins of error. All models are wrong, some are useful [2]. The map is not the territory [3]. All scientific models are scale variant [4] e.g contextual. Scientific models are pragmatic at best. Useful for a particular purpose within some domain of applicability When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging…

The curvature of the Earth is already accounted for; my house sits upon a foundation of poured concrete which is leveled off and flattened locally. In this way, we also accounted for the gravitational geoid variation around the house. Honestly, I have to compensate more for the curvature of the floorboards!

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#164
post #5

Illusion in the spirit is as nothing, behold a world that runs on illusions! Their war and peace are made upon illusion, their glory and their shame are from illusion. - Rumi [1] [1] https://bit.ly/31jwRUb

Just beautiful. We have our Baudrillard and The Matrix and think we are so different, modern, cutting edge, living in a 21st century hyperreality. Rumi saw it 800 years ago!

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#165

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

keeping my realist comments to myself took me more than two decades to become competent at. it'll take me another two decades to master. the trick is to understand that all people live in a marginal headspace where engagement with the nature of the world is heavily filtered and limited so that their psychology can continue to mostly function on a day to day basis. this is true whether you are a "realist" or "pessimis…

Piercing the veil... what an appropriate turn of phrase. I resonate a lot with your third paragraph. I also think it can be rude and unnecessary to expose people to this paradigm if they're not ready. It's a bad analogy, but it's almost like poison. If you're used to some types of poison, they wont cause injury, but if you're not... it could kill you. Trouble is, in my mind life is filled with these poisons and people often only narrowly avoid them-- if they do at all.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#166
post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

Sorry for your loss, I've lost cats in the past and it sucks badly. If I may be of advice, don't let the loss put you down ("I'll never get a cat again because losing it is too much of a pain", been in the same situation) and when you feel ready get a new one. No, it won't take away the suffering of the loss, but you will slowly start to love the new one and find more motivation. About 16 years ago we lost a small kitten and were devastated to the point we arranged a sort of viking funeral on a river; initially I didn't want to get a new cat but my girlfriend convinced me and in a few days we had a wonderful new kitten. It lived 13 years before cancer took it away, but it became part of the family and brought happiness to the house. When it died I got a new one, and this one is growing an attachment to us just like the old one: I can't go out if I don't spend a good 10 minutes cuddling it, and have almost succeeded in "teaching" it to shake hands (search "rainman the handshaking cat", mine is just like that one:). My point, so we can sorta get back to the topic, is that when something bad happens, it is possible that it could trigger a series of events that might end up producing something positive. If I didn't lose the first cat I'd never have got the second and the third. I'm not being religiously optimist here, just pointing out that moving forward after a loss can be of help.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#167
post #113

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I feel like I relate. > So I try to keep this "depressive realism" to myself most of the time. Do you ever start to feel alone, isolated, and mis- or not understood too?

> Do you ever start to feel alone, isolated, and mis- or not understood too?

Reading literature helps. It largely deals with the big, sad themes & topics of life and existence. Yes, the "stuffy" "canon" stuff. At least you know all these famous (or famous among lit-reading folks, anyway) authors saw the same things you do, then, which is a kind of camaraderie. Hell, Gilgamesh is about this stuff, very directly. Egyptian didactic literature treats of it. The Bible. Homer and the Greek tragedians. It's been around as long as we've had written culture, basically. You Are Not Alone (aside from how you totally, completely are, naturally! hahaha).

Then find other people who read that stuff and talk with them about it and set up dinner & wine parties to talk about it and hey you guys wanna go see the latest Lars Von Trier film and congratulations, you've distracted yourself from the fundamental horror at the center of existence by way of engaging with it, mission accomplished.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#168
post #116

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

You can practice mindfulness and meditate daily and still be depressed about the state of the world you live in. You can recognize negative experiences, embrace them, and still feel empty afterwards. You can see yourself as a bristle on the brushstroke of the universe and still feel insignificant. You can see that life is just a game and not want to play. In a world with 7 billion people all playing their own game, t…

>> You can see yourself as a bristle on the brushstroke of the universe and still feel insignificant.

Why is feeling insignificant bringing you down? Understand that for yourself.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found a lot of correlation between this sort of sense of humour and the type of place I enjoy working at. Me and straight laced folk just don't get on. It doesn't work. There's an impedance mismatch whereby there are all of these invisible lines that I cross without even realising. Like yeah, dude, your job is bullshit. So is mine. Life is, and then you die. If you're not fucking around and having (harmless) fun…

> Those sorts of people need to exist - society would fall apart if everyone were so freewheeling Is that really true, or are we just conditioned to think that? Basic sense and decency can still be made explicit.

[deleted]

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture? I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it? It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice. Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through. I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Wel…

>I can't remember the last time the Earth's shape mattered to my practical, decision-making process.

Did you use a GPS lately?

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps....

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