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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#131

Post by username90 »

ModelTheorist12 wrote: post #111
mfoy_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad analogy that makes it sound like you're defending flat-earthers. It's like saying you use Hermeticism's Principle of Rhythm to build a pendulum-powered clock... And unlike both Flat-Earth theory and Hermetics, Newton was actually demonstrably right . Flat-earthers and Hermeticists spin their theories out of whole cloth.

The shape of the Earth is just a model [1] - an approximation. All models have margins of error. All models are wrong, some are useful [2]. The map is not the territory [3]. All scientific models are scale variant [4] e.g contextual. Scientific models are pragmatic at best. Useful for a particular purpose within some domain of applicability When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging…

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture?

I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#132

Post by throwaway932 »

buboard wrote: post #8

Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed?

Yes, but there is a social element:

People who see the world realistically while living in a "positive thinking" society often feel like there something wrong in them.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#133

Post by ModelTheorist12 »

username90 wrote: post #131
ModelTheorist12 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shape of the Earth is just a model [1] - an approximation. All models have margins of error. All models are wrong, some are useful [2]. The map is not the territory [3]. All scientific models are scale variant [4] e.g contextual. Scientific models are pragmatic at best. Useful for a particular purpose within some domain of applicability When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging…

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture? I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it?

It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice.

Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through.

I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Well. The best I can do is to tell you to mind your own business.

I can't remember the last time the Earth's shape mattered to my practical, decision-making process.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#134

Post by cente »

riskneutral wrote: post #80

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

May I ask you what did you use to approach meditation?

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#135

Post by nicky0 »

rocelot wrote: post #119
rtkaratekid wrote: post #102

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

The other day someone was remarking how quickly one's luck can change (for the better). I don't disagree but for whatever reason my response was, "yah, life is full of ups and downs, the trick is to die on one of the upticks". I thought it was hilarious. They thought I was morbid and cynical. Go figure!

Some people are unprepared to consider their own death.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#136

Post by habnds »

riskneutral wrote: post #80

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

sounds like spiritual bypass. Maintaining a state of mind isn't the same as changing the relationship one has with daily experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_bypass

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#137

Post by habnds »

serverholic wrote: post #105
acollins1331 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There are lots of bad things in the world that do happen. Maybe more bad then good. You have one life to live and sitting around being depressed or angry about them is just a waste of time.

Wow how did I not think of that before! Just don't be depressed. It's so easy!

Tired of being homeless? Buy a home!

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#138

Post by username90 »

mirimir wrote: post #19
osdiab wrote: post #9

This statement is way too sweeping... Some forms of pessimism probably reflect that, I'm an optimistic, not-depressed person who sees things that way - but I know plenty of often-depressed people who fail to see their circumstances clearly, and spiral because as a result of it. Friend: "I'm such a failure and my future is definitely going to be horrible!" Me: "So, who's judging you as a failure, why does such judgmen…

Right. They may be realistic about their circumstances. But they're not realistic about their ability to transform them.

Or they realistically assume that they have average ability but they have above average expectations. Most people will have to face the reality that they will never be special in some way, so if you aren't fine with just being another face among the masses you will be depressed. Or someone they care about just died, their expectations was that they would have this person for most of their life is now broken and nothing they can do can fix this, unless they believe in spirits and ghosts and ouija boards of course.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#139

Post by spinach »

acollins1331 wrote: post #87
riskneutral wrote: post #80

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

This. There are lots of bad things in the world that do happen. Maybe more bad then good. You have one life to live and sitting around being depressed or angry about them is just a waste of time.

Depression is more about a loss of vitality than it is about 'being sad', although it manifests with lots of negative thoughts. You can't just suddenly become more alive or have tons more energy, although drugs and therapy can help. And telling people to 'snap out of it' does not help someone who is depressed.

It's like if you're really, really, really sleepy. You can't just suddenly be super awake. You can take pills or try to push through it, but you just want to sleep - you can't help it.

Depression is crippling just like having a broken leg, it's just that it cripples your mind.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#140

Post by MisterTea »

kypro wrote: post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

Sorry about your cat. Feel better.
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