Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#421

Post by knicholes » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #410

1propionyl wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it might be that it is effectively a theocracy because a church with a strongly enforced normative code of "morality" controls access to political levers (practically requiring membership for anyone who wants to effect political change of any kind), and that church exerts a 10-15% tax on its members? Which it then uses (in parallel to the "official" state government) to invest in projects and consolidate its ow…

The LDS church (Mormons) are much more accepting of LGBTQ+ members than other Christian sects from what I’ve seen. And that “tax” is called a tithe. And it’s optional.

It's only optional if you don't want to go inside the temples and don't mind being burned during the Second Coming.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#422

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #262

euske wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that video games will be the next social media (if they aren't already). When they created Twitters and Facebooks, they've never imagined that one day their platform will be a highly politicized. Similarly, people haven't imagined that video games are used for politics, but in the end every platform is going to be political. I wouldn't say it's something they have "created" (as others pointed out already), bu…

And that is totally stupid, why does every platform has to be political? Or rather, being forced by a subset of people with political agenda? Currently r/AskReddit is still relatively free, HN is also mostly free.

>And that is totally stupid, why does every platform has to be political? Or rather, being forced by a subset of people with political agenda?

Being able to be apolitical is a luxury and a privilege. Some people are not afforded this, and have to be political to attempt to protect their way of life. That there is nothing in your life that forces you to try and affect a change means that you are lucky.

The same cries of "Subject X shouldn't be political!" have been around since the days of slavery, civil rights, and suffrage. I expect they go back even further. Transgender people are murdered at appalling rates today - should a transgender person not talk about the fact that they are in significantly more danger than a non-trans individual purely so that someone else doesn't have to read or hear about it?

When you're dealing with real human beings, that entails a lot of baggage. Asking for all of that to be dropped at the door for your benefit is unreasonable.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#423

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #410

1propionyl wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it might be that it is effectively a theocracy because a church with a strongly enforced normative code of "morality" controls access to political levers (practically requiring membership for anyone who wants to effect political change of any kind), and that church exerts a 10-15% tax on its members? Which it then uses (in parallel to the "official" state government) to invest in projects and consolidate its ow…

The LDS church (Mormons) are much more accepting of LGBTQ+ members than other Christian sects from what I’ve seen. And that “tax” is called a tithe. And it’s optional.

The LDS church downgraded same sex marriage from apostasy to a serious transgression this year.[1] The Episcopal church ordained an openly gay bishop in 2003.[2]

[1] https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presi...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Robinson

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#424

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #110

ncallaway wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They banned a player and stripped their prize-money for speaking out in favor of HK. They did this in order to try and maintain access to Chinese markets, probably assuming that the US market wouldn't care.

They banned him because he spoken about politics which have nothing with video games. I don't think that they tried to censor exactly HK speech. I guess they would have banned him if he would talk about Putin as well.

No one said anything about Putin, so we can't really argue that. I could pose another hypothetical and say I guess they wouldn't have banned him if he said he believes LGTBQ+ people deserve equal rights. We don't know because those didn't happen, making them not particularly useful statements.

What we can say is that the operator of Blizzard games in China, Net Ease, while posting about this incident under a Blizzard branded account, said that they would protect and defend the pride of China. Blizzard has not distanced themselves from this statement, "clarified" it, or done anything whatsoever to indicate that this stance is not the truth.

When someone you have authorized to represent you is making a statement in your name, it will be taken as being endorsed, unless you state otherwise.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#425

Post by cjbprime » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #382

cjbprime wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and I think most people do, that disrupting a tournament with political speech deserves some kind of punishment, perhaps up to a ban, though ideally not for the first offense. The punishment should be made clear in the rules and enforced objectively rather than selectively. But note that what actually happened is much worse than a minor punishment: full ban for a year, confiscation of prize money th…

I think you gave me the most pause in this argument so far. I do think punishing the player itself, even in the original 12 months / 10k way before they relented, was .. acceptable? Linking to my earlier comparison with professional athletes: You can lose your title, be fined and be banned for behaving improperly. Which I think was the case here, completely ignoring what he was advocating. You're bringing up good poi…

I agree with most of this, yeah.

> Linking to my earlier comparison with professional athletes: You can lose your title, be fined and be banned for behaving improperly.

This wasn't improper behavior that affected the result of the athletic event, though. Is it true that people are getting year long bans from their sport just for behaving improperly? Like, isn't Nick Kyrgios' on-court tennis behavior worse than this and yet he's still at events? I think as an athlete you have to be doping -- actually affecting event results -- to get this severe a punishment.

Another reason to be more lenient is that while Blitzchung knew some trouble would come, this was an unprecedented situation and the amount of trouble wasn't predictable by him.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#426

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #284

wbl wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a fundamental cultural difference. This is a tyranny that brokes no dissent and murders its people to stay in power.

I took History of The Far East in college decades ago. The cultural friction between China and the West substantially precedes the current government of the country. Regardless of what is going on there politically currently, they are a growing economic power. That makes them the proverbial 800 pound gorilla that people are increasingly afraid of pissing off for fear of financial consequences. They have one seventh o…

>It's a huge market that simply cannot be ignored.

True, if your motive is profit above all else.

Otherwise, it is quite simple to ignore China's demands. Create the products, services, etc. that you want to create. If people in China buy them, fine. If China says they'll buy them if only you do Thing X, if you do not morally agree with Thing X, simply do not do it.

There are near limitless numbers of businesses that are economically viable without catering to China's demands.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#427

Post by alex_c » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #380

alex_c wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blizzard absolutely has the right to punish Blitzchung for his statement, and I am sure he expected and accepted there would be consequences. The issue is, was the punishment: 1) Strictly because Blizzard did not want unauthorized political statements on its video game stream - perfectly understandable, or 2) Partly because Blizzard feared retaliation from China, and acted more harshly than it normally would. We can'…

> We can't know for sure from the outside, but context suggests 2 is more likely. Can't it be .. both? And if we at least somewhat agree that this had to have consequences, why .. does it matter? > For years American entertainment has been some of the most effective propaganda globally, now American citizens are indirectly starting to be exposed to Chinese propaganda (by avoiding content or topics) in American entert…

>And if we at least somewhat agree that this had to have consequences, why .. does it matter?

This might be where our views diverge. If you don’t think it matters whether a US company punished a Hong Kong national, in Taiwan, for political speech in support of democracy out of fear of potentially offending China, then I don’t think we’ll find much common ground.

>that seems very American to worry about

It is, and that’s the whole point. If this were a French company punishing a Romanian caster for potentially offending the Bulgarian government, no one would care (other than mild confusion, probably).

This is one very small battle in a global struggle between the US, where democracy and political speech are supposed to be sacred, and China, where they are supposed to be taboo. Blizzard brilliantly got themselves caught right in the middle.

By the way - I’m not American either, I’m watching this from the sidelines just like you.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#428

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

tutiospose wrote: post #325

soraki_soladead wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be too subtle and difficult to organize but it would be pretty funny and effective if _everyone_ showed up as Mei. It would be really hard for Blizzard to penalize anyone for it but the message would be pretty clear if enough people did it.

The problem is the Chinese fans are also using Mei for patriotic messages now, especially after the voice actress sided with China.

>especially after the voice actress sided with China

Elise Zhang has not taken any sort of public position on the Hong Kong protests at all. Someone living in China and celebrating their national holiday while stating they love their homeland is not the same thing as taking a position on every policy and action of said country.

I celebrate July 4th and love America. That does not mean that I believe that America can do no wrong, or that I believe we are on the right end of every decision. I have taken to the streets and protested the actions of our leadership - does this disqualify me from loving America and celebrating it for the good parts?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#429

Post by wpdev_63 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #202

We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech. China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls, yet they have blatantly influenced the behavior of our biggest mass media companies for years. To be fair, they've done an outstanding job of it. They fund a huge number of film productions. They've bought…

> We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech.

Well if you think we should antagonize china for offending our freedoms, then we should be culling the nsa, fbi, and other 3 letter agencies that violate our constitutional right to privacy.

The US gov't and the chinese gov't are two faces on the same coin. The difference is the chinese gov't does what the US gov't does in the open.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#430

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #88

thatswrong0 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that a country which is committing human rights abuses is pressuring said private company (among _many_ others) to abridge free speech. The other case is a private company not wanting to host right-wing neo-nazi content of which the general public isn’t really accepting. I don’t see the hypocrisy here at all.. tbh I don’t even quite understand how you can conflate the two situations other than the f…

Both situations feature people being banned by companies due to their speech because the companies fear backlash from more powerful entities (China or the media/general public respectively). They seem pretty comparable to me.

I don't follow your argument. Is it that we should not worry about morals and ethics, and instead just look at actions in vacuum, and decide whether or not an action should be taken with no regard to context?

It's not hypocritical for someone to believe that Cloudflare should kick nazis off their service and at the same time believe Blizzard should stand up to China.

Human beings are capable of exercising nuance and understanding complex topics. I don't want to generally go around punching or kicking people, but if I'm cornered and someone is trying to do harm to me, I'm going to fight back. It's the context around such actiona that defines whether or not it was just.