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Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

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Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#341

Post by flukus »

triceratops wrote: post #331
flukus wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech is an ideal, the constitutional protection is only an implementation and in the modern world arguably not the most important one. As for compelling companies to do business with people they don't want to, we crossed that line long ago, they can't refuse service to people on the ground of race, sex, etc. Are you in favor of getting rid of anti-discrimination laws?

Protected characteristics i.e. things you can't use as a basis for discrimination are things that people can't change about themselves. Refusing to do business because you don't like what someone is saying is different from refusing to do business on the basis of a protected characteristic.

> Protected characteristics i.e. things you can't use as a basis for discrimination are things that people can't change about themselves.

That's not true, the list of protected classes includes religion, gender, familial status and veteran status. All things which people have control over.

But the point is we've already stomped all over any "right" a business has to deny service to someone. Instead of defending this right and the new age of corporate fascism that comes with it, why not go for something fully universal and remove a tool for CCP manipulation at the same time?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#342

Post by [deleted] »

notyourday wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These incidents are making me reevaluate my views on the Cold War. Growing up after the Cold War was over, I always thought the domestic reaction (in the US) to the Soviet Union and Communism was overblown. Of course, growing up during the 1990s boom, it was inconceivable to me that any foreign country could have the slightest negative impact on me, or that there was any possibility that the future offered anything o…

The difference is that the USSR was a small market, so it was possible to crush it economically, which is what the West did. This time around China is looking to become the largest market and if we let it to become one before China sheds its "communism with Chinese characteristics", it will crush the West.

[deleted]

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#343

Post by darklajid »

alex_c wrote: post #333
darklajid wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the line of reasoning here. If Blizzard wants to (appear to, if we doubt their sincerity) support a political cause, that's a decision by the company. I agree that they should expect a potential fallout for that. But how is that related to Blizzard sponsoring (paying for casters, production and using their branding) content where random individuals make their own political statements (imho: present…

Context is important. Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. Specifically, last year Blizzard disappointed fans by announcing a mobile Diablo game that no one really asked for and that many felt is squarely aime…

> Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality.

I .. take your word for it. I'm not sure what the "no skeletons?" references and I'd argue that sexuality is already a pretty weird thing if you - say - take the US and Europe (during the 2006 soccer championship US visitors got an "informational leaflet" that - among other things - said something along the lines of "On tv back home? Gore is fine, sex is bad. Here? Expect less gore, more nudity"). But again, without said context and without catching your references I .. can't really disagree.

> Context #2: the trade war and Hong Kong protests have brought a lot of attention to China in general. The Hong Kong protests seem to be particularly popular with younger people online.

Not sure how that's related to HK per se, but I agree that this was on the news a lot (I'm.. using a Huawei phone myself).

> Context #3: Blizzard's reaction seemed particularly swift and heavy-handed

Fair enough, that's true.

> Further, Blizzard's support for LGBTQ suggests that it's not just about political statements on the stream

I .. don't get this. What does LGBTQ have to do with .. anything? How does the fact that BLIZZARD can make public statements one way or another on BLIZZARD streams or elsewhere have anything to do with private unrelated individuals making their own loaded statements on BLIZZARD streams?

> Combine all that and Blizzard put themselves in an impossible situation with no good way forward.

I guess there's no debating this: They're in a bad spot and I don't know what they could/should do.

> My personal opinion: it probably was about China

I don't even disagree with this, I'm not thaaat naive. I assume it was mostly about China. My problem is that I still think that the guy was out of line and should be banned/punished for hijacking the event.

Pro-gamers often lament the fact that they aren't considered "athletes" in the general public, that people like to say things like "eSports aren't real sports" etc.

But in this case I feel this professional Hearthstone gamer got treated like an athlete - just not in the way he probably would've liked: If you're representing your sport, if you're on camera/in public, then you're not a private person and keep your private agenda to yourself. Otherwise there will be consequences for your career and your club/league/whatever association is relevant might remind you of that in fines/bans.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#344

Post by blondin »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #109
CocaKoala wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had just not done anything when blitzchung made his statement in support of Hong Kong, it likely would have gotten essentially zero media play.

I haven't followed the situation closely, but we never get to A/B test such decisions. We make a decision and see the outcome for which one we chose. Saying they created this situation is a little like blaming a casualty of war for living in the country they were born in. China exists and it's a large country with growing power that has fundamental cultural differences with the West and always has. There may be bette…

wait what? why make it so complicated... the simple fact is that people are pissed because one of their own got a treatment they didn't like. i am not involved or following but i get enough in the news to figure what's happening. a simple google search will give you plenty.

also, this is not the first time the gaming community went against a company. and tbh i am not sure some young ones don't know or care much about politics of what's happening in the east. one of their own got sacked. that's all that matters.

so yes, they probably shouldn't have banned that player.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#345

Post by apineda »

streb-lo wrote: post #165
onli wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the blizzard related subreddits are staffed by mods that remove posts about China. And when you post something in /r/wow you see a big "no politics" banner. Not seeing that many posts about this there means nothing about how the players feel. And reddit in general was up in arms about this.

>And reddit in general was up in arms about this. For two days. >Many of the blizzard related subreddits are staffed by mods that remove posts about China. And when you post something in /r/wow you see a big "no politics" banner. Not seeing that many posts about this there means nothing about how the players feel. Activity level is pretty much the same. I'm sorry, but this is just the latest outrage target and in two…

reddit is not representative of sentiment. I don't think the topic will go away so quickly, esp since NBA and Lebron have brought so much heat on them as well.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#346

Post by Dylan16807 »

nordsieck wrote: post #237
barry-cotter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cue, as in it’s your cue to speak rather than queue as in line up to wait for something. Truly English spelling is a delight for historical linguists.

> Truly English spelling is a delight for historical linguists. The worst part to me is that many (often older) loan words have anglicized pronunciation, while other loan words keep their original pronunciation.

Sometimes we borrow a word multiple times!

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#347

Post by cjbprime »

darklajid wrote: post #343
alex_c wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context is important. Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. Specifically, last year Blizzard disappointed fans by announcing a mobile Diablo game that no one really asked for and that many felt is squarely aime…

> Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. I .. take your word for it. I'm not sure what the "no skeletons?" references and I'd argue that sexuality is already a pretty weird thing if you - say - take the US and E…

I agree with you, and I think most people do, that disrupting a tournament with political speech deserves some kind of punishment, perhaps up to a ban, though ideally not for the first offense. The punishment should be made clear in the rules and enforced objectively rather than selectively.

But note that what actually happened is much worse than a minor punishment: full ban for a year, confiscation of prize money that had previously been won, firing both the (Taiwanese!) interviewers for a crime that was extremely close to just being unavoidably in the wrong place at the wrong time, having the company representing Blizzard in China issuing an apology about defending China's "national pride".. it feels like a set of consequences that were likely dictated by China, or at least planned explicitly to try to please them.

You can object to a specific punishment without objecting to the idea of giving a punishment, and I think that's what's been happening here.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#348

Post by Dylan16807 »

flukus wrote: post #341
triceratops wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protected characteristics i.e. things you can't use as a basis for discrimination are things that people can't change about themselves. Refusing to do business because you don't like what someone is saying is different from refusing to do business on the basis of a protected characteristic.

> Protected characteristics i.e. things you can't use as a basis for discrimination are things that people can't change about themselves. That's not true, the list of protected classes includes religion, gender, familial status and veteran status. All things which people have control over. But the point is we've already stomped all over any "right" a business has to deny service to someone. Instead of defending this…

People have control over their gender? You should let everyone suffering from dysphoria know that!

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#349

Post by mattmar96 »

streb-lo wrote: post #17
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #4

This is a crisis point for everyone who supports political free speech. Every corporation and business person is watching this to see which hurts their bottom line less, suppressing free speech globally, or angering China. As consumers, we must make sure that they get the message loud and clear that suppressing free speech globally on behalf of China is going to hurt their bottom line far more than China will. Otherw…

> is going to hurt their bottom line far more than China will. Yea right. a) China has a huge market and b) most people don't really care. Go to /r/hearthstone or /r/wow and browse by new. People don't care.

I was really disappointed to see this earlier today. Even many of the top posts were gameplay related. It took me .5 seconds to say goodbye to Blizzard and all their games.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#350

Post by cjbprime »

Splines wrote: post #340
JKCalhoun wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems obvious to me: C, Blizzard does nothing.

Is Blizzcon streamed in China? I agree - nothing will happen. They'll likely heavily filter what they broadcast in China if they do stream there, and that's about all they can possibly do.

Blizzcon contains live finals for the Overwatch World Cup, StarCraft 2 WCS finals, etc, and they will likely be streamed from the venue and watched by somewhere around (?) 100k people in China, I'm not sure of an exact estimate.
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