Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#381

Post by Rebelgecko » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #375

Rebelgecko wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Blizzard says "this character is gay in America but in other countries he is straight", it seems like inauthentic pandering instead of actual representation.

When did they say that?

The first time was in 2016.

Blizzard has released a series of comics delving into the backstories of the characters in the game. Feel free to play spot the difference with which comics got released in various locales:

America: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/media/#comics-section

Russia: https://playoverwatch.com/ru-ru/media#comics-section

China: https://ow.blizzard.cn/media/ (there's some weird javascript stuff that prevents me from linking directly, click the speech bubble on the right side of the page to see the list of comics)

Taiwan: https://playoverwatch.com/zh-tw/media#comics-section

Edit: The tl;dr is that one of the comics doesn't exist in Russia or mainland China. Funnily enough, it looks like their CDN actually has a zh-cn version of the missing comic which is distinct from the zh-tw one (I don't know much about the chinese language but I'm assuming it's Simplified vs Traditional characters? Some of the onomatopoeia are translated differently too) https://static.playoverwatch.com/media/comics/10/zh-cn/comic...

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#382

Post by darklajid » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:28 AM UTC

cjbprime wrote: post #347

darklajid wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. I .. take your word for it. I'm not sure what the "no skeletons?" references and I'd argue that sexuality is already a pretty weird thing if you - say - take the US and E…

I agree with you, and I think most people do, that disrupting a tournament with political speech deserves some kind of punishment, perhaps up to a ban, though ideally not for the first offense. The punishment should be made clear in the rules and enforced objectively rather than selectively. But note that what actually happened is much worse than a minor punishment: full ban for a year, confiscation of prize money th…

I think you gave me the most pause in this argument so far.

I do think punishing the player itself, even in the original 12 months / 10k way before they relented, was .. acceptable? Linking to my earlier comparison with professional athletes: You can lose your title, be fined and be banned for behaving improperly. Which I think was the case here, completely ignoring what he was advocating.

You're bringing up good points about the rest of the disaster though. Unless they were secretly in on this (and all coverage I saw makes that highly unlikely), the casters are complete bystanders and not responsible in the slightest¹.

I won't weasel around and say "It wasn't _Blizzard_ directly who apologized" or stuff like that. The apology is - in my opinion - the worst part in all of this and the single part I find a little disgusting.

Ban/Fine the guy? Yup. Fire casters: That's stupid. Apologize to China: Ewww..

I guess what made me burn my karma in this thread is that so far I've seen a lot of discussions focus on "Freedom of Speech" (not applicable on a private platform, not a global/unified concept anyway) and actually .. supporting the gamer.

Player vs Blizzard: Both fucked this up. The former intentionally², the latter incompetently. I don't see why Blizzard alone gets the hate and is painted as the bad guy.

① One might mayyyybe wonder if the production team could've cut to a commercial, but again.. no use blaming other people.

② I've never watched that player myself, but I extend him the courtesy to believe that he knew he was doing something stupid/risky way in advance

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#383

Post by GoodJokes » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #202

We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech. China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls, yet they have blatantly influenced the behavior of our biggest mass media companies for years. To be fair, they've done an outstanding job of it. They fund a huge number of film productions. They've bought…

Honestly, replace China with the USA and you have an even stronger case.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#384

Post by darklajid » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:32 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #379

darklajid wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in the West it is expected that token political statements are to be allowed and protected. Is that so? I could imagine a huuuge amount of political statements that are illegal in my home country, Germany. Since I was raised there these rules are ingrained in me: "Free Speech" is not a thing (if we compare it to the US) and - that's the important part - I don't DISAGREE with that. > "Free HK" isn't a particular…

> I could imagine a huuuge amount of political statements that are illegal in my home country, Germany. Since I was raised there these rules are ingrained in me: "Free Speech" is not a thing (if we compare it to the US) Well I am sorry for the people who live in that country. > compared to - say - supporting Texas leaving the US I don't think many people would care if someone playing a video game said "Free Texas!".…

> Well I am sorry for the people who live in that country.

And this, Hacker News, is why it's hard to argue on English platforms / on mostly American sites.

This poster, in a single reply, just showed extreme arrogance, perceived superiority and complete unawareness of cultural differences - because obviously anything other than what the US constitution says is inferior and needs to be pitied.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#385

Post by esoterica » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:59 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #275

esoterica wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxing speech you don’t like is the exact opposite of being pro-free speech.

> Taxing speech you don’t like is the exact opposite of being pro-free speech. I'm suggesting that we tax all business activities in China because China has shown themselves to be an enemy of the West and of democracy. They pose an existential threat to both and we should begin taking additional measures to protect and secure our interests. I'm not saying we tax pro-China messages or force companies to produce anti-C…

Taxing an entire spectrum of economic activity for the express purpose of discouraging certain kinds of speech (e.g. pro-China content) is anti free speech.

> Disincentivize this blatant attack on of our freedom of speech.

I'll quote you right here since you keep insisting you're not talking about free speech.

> Games are not permitted to promote LGBT acceptance.

I see lots of games that have LGBT characters. Isn't that what the Gamer Gaters keep whining about? That companies keep "virtue signaling" by pandering to minority groups?

But China isn't the only regressive society in the world. Corporations also sometimes avoid overtly endorsing progressive perspectives to avoid offending domestic conservatives. Should we also tax business activity in Alabama so companies aren't afraid to make LGBT-friendly games to cater to red states? The government isn't in the business of deciding which speech should be discouraged and which should be encouraged.

> China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls.

If you choose not to consume certain pieces of foreign media because you disagree with its philosophy or some other part of it are you also violating their country's sovereignty? E.g. if you decide not to read Harry Potter because the British slang confuses you, are you committing an unethical act by unduly pressuring British publishers to produce more America-friendly content?

> They are left with true and unfettered western culture. A culture that flies in the face of fascist narratives.

So much to unpack here

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#386

Post by barry-cotter » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #346

nordsieck wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Truly English spelling is a delight for historical linguists. The worst part to me is that many (often older) loan words have anglicized pronunciation, while other loan words keep their original pronunciation.

Sometimes we borrow a word multiple times!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublet_(linguistics)

e.g.

> chief, chef, cape, capo, caput and head (French (twice), Latin via French, Italian, Latin, and Germanic, all from the same Indo-European word *ka(u)put "head")

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#387

Post by maxvon » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #56

cjbprime wrote: post #10

The huge question here is what's going to happen at BlizzCon in two weeks. There'll be 40,000+ attendees, cameras everywhere, there are usually Q&A panels, homemade signs for player support, cosplay, everything. How can you host BlizzCon when you're terrified of political speech?

I, and several friends, all have tickets. We're still deciding what form of protest will be most effective (too overt and the message gets quickly lost when security kicks you out).

Flash mobs of Do You Hear the People Sing, every hour on the hour.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#388

Post by ryanlol » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 7:21 AM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #157

kmonsen wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese version of the Blizzard statement was different: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-bli... It included we will defend the honor of the nation, making it clear exactly what he did wrong.

Posted not by Blizzard but by Net-Ease, a Chinese company that isn't owned by Blizzard.

If belltacos lawyer makes a statement “belltaco supports child rape”, should we assume that belltaco is a nice guy just because he outsourced the vile statement?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#389

Post by throw_m239339 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 7:29 AM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #209

Copyrighted wrote: post #45

Mark Kern (ex-lead WoW dev, and dev for Starcraft/Warcraft/Diablo 2) posted a good analysis of Blizzard's statement on Blitzchung. https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352?ref_sr...

FYI, for folks who aren't familiar, Mark Kern's history also includes full throated support of GamerGate and being removed from a CEO role at Red 5 by the board of directors. (Allegedly for erratic and disruptive behavior.) It's been a really, really wild ride seeing lefty twitter and righty twitter hold hands and agree that Blizzard did the wrong thing. (Though for different reasons.)

Interesting, can you link to a proof that he supported the harassment of female developers since apparently, "Gamergate" was a harassment campaign against female game developers.

It should be easy to quote a tweet where he celebrates the harassment of female game developers, instead of making people take your word for it.

Also what do you think is more relevant? your "Gamergate petty bullshit" or the fact that Mark Kern is Taiwanese national and grew up in Hong Kong himself? And had a significant role at Blizzard?

What Mark Kern thinks about Gamergate is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but you people can't help it. Personal attacks are all you know to discredit others.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#390

Post by skocznymroczny » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 7:53 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #202

We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech. China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls, yet they have blatantly influenced the behavior of our biggest mass media companies for years. To be fair, they've done an outstanding job of it. They fund a huge number of film productions. They've bought…

I don't think of it as free speech issue. If an Overwatch streamer was banned for wearing a MAGA hat, most of the community would cheer Blizzard for that.