Of course this happens after I leave California
California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
121–130 of 404 posts
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.
You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences? And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?
This isn't about poverty, this is about those trying to move themselves or their kids out of poverty. The people who work hard at jobs and push their kids to go to good schools.
Poverty is a complex issue that cannot be summarized in a single word.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.
You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences? And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?
I can't speak for the Bay Area, but my region exhibits similar patterns.
Consider an example. A "good" school might have 100 slots for out-of-area kindergartners, distributed via a lottery system. However, the lottery system uses a biased distribution which preferentially selects from students who have been on the waitlist longer. This system is easily defensible by school administrators in the name of "fairness" to students who have waited longer.
The unspoken desire, however, is to preferentially select students with a higher socioeconomic index, because such students tend to score higher on standardized tests (and therefore maintain the school's current "good" ranking). Asking for this information explicitly is, naturally, forbidden.
Instead, the school waits for parents to come for site visits during working hours. These visits are attended overwhelmingly by stay-at-home parents, which correlate with socioeconomically-advantaged families, for the simple reason that they can afford to have a parent stay at home (the -economic side of socioeconomic). Underemployed parents cannot attend, because they are still working, but usually at jobs which do not offer flexible work hours. Unemployed parents can attend, but rarely do so, because the chronically unemployed statistically come from lower social backgrounds (the socio- side) that either do not value education as highly, or may not know that the concept of "school visits" even exist.
Then, when these parents visit, the schools inform them of the existence of the waiting list. However, information about the wait list (and especially details about its biased selectivity) will not be available by phone or website until enrollment opens. Thus, parents who attend the tours will be preferentially selected, since they are on the waiting list first, and the school can put their finger on the socioeconomic scale without ever asking parents for sensitive information.
For purely public schools which do not allow out-of-area students, this approach isn't relevant, because they are required to accept students from the local area and only the local area. These schools don't care, because the locations themselves correlate with socioeconomic factors, due to property values tracking school achievement.
For charter schools, which pass all students through similar systems, it allows them to accept statistically-advantageous students across all levels, leading to better outcomes overall (and shifting the remaining disadvantaged students, and the correspondingly lower level of achievement they statistically will achieve, to low-income public schools).
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#124Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…
I really enjoyed my public education, but I realize we happen to have very very good public schools in my city. I'm sorry your experience was so bad.
Thank you. But what really matters is not the well-being of individual people who fall through the cracks but the well-being of the whole country. Our public schools on the whole are simply not equipping people to be good citizens. Look at the average Americans knowledge of geography. We are an international embarrassment. How will people vote intelligently when they can’t even point to Germany on a map? It’s a very serious problem.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#125California: everything is either banned or required.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
8am or later start probably has more to do with kids being sufficiently awake, an important state when attending school.
Kids put properly to bed at proper time is more than fresh at 7. Thats the least of the problems here.
That's not true according to multiple studies. On mobile, but you can Google them. Kids were found to do better when starting later, regardless of how early the kids go to bed.
The effect is more pronounced in high school aged kids.
Additionally, there is something to be said for accommodating kids who don't have a stable enough home life or parents that care or realize the damage caused by not enough sleep.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences? And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?
I can't speak for the Bay Area, but my region exhibits similar patterns. Consider an example. A "good" school might have 100 slots for out-of-area kindergartners, distributed via a lottery system. However, the lottery system uses a biased distribution which preferentially selects from students who have been on the waitlist longer. This system is easily defensible by school administrators in the name of "fairness" to…
[deleted]
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.
You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences? And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?
People know when they aren’t welcome, and anticipate the passive aggressive treatment they will likely expect.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kids put properly to bed at proper time is more than fresh at 7. Thats the least of the problems here.
That's not true according to multiple studies. On mobile, but you can Google them. Kids were found to do better when starting later, regardless of how early the kids go to bed. The effect is more pronounced in high school aged kids. Additionally, there is something to be said for accommodating kids who don't have a stable enough home life or parents that care or realize the damage caused by not enough sleep.
I dont know what you mean with better, my two sons are top performers in their school and the school network is top 3% performing in NY state. They are in school at 7:45 latest each morning.
There are many benefits to getting an early start in the morning as ling as you have had a long nights sleep. So i would like to see the base if those studies as they dont reflect the reality and statistics i know of.
Edit to those who claim it's anecdotal: Their school network is Success Academy.
And I was originally responding to the claim that you can't be fresh as a kid at 7 if you go to bed in proper time which is simply wrong.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po...
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not true according to multiple studies. On mobile, but you can Google them. Kids were found to do better when starting later, regardless of how early the kids go to bed. The effect is more pronounced in high school aged kids. Additionally, there is something to be said for accommodating kids who don't have a stable enough home life or parents that care or realize the damage caused by not enough sleep.
I dont know what you mean with better, my two sons are top performers in their school and the school network is top 3% performing in NY state. They are in school at 7:45 latest each morning. There are many benefits to getting an early start in the morning as ling as you have had a long nights sleep. So i would like to see the base if those studies as they dont reflect the reality and statistics i know of. Edit to tho…
Refuting the results of scientific studies with anecdotal evidence is not going to win any arguments. Surely you must understand how these scientific studies work?