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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

qz.com

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#91

Post by polynomial »

malandrew wrote: post #80
non-entity wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

Geographical latitude can make a big difference. Right now, there is a 30 minute difference between sunrise in Los Angeles (6:59am) and Seattle (7:29am). Given that most US television programming has historically been produced in Los Angeles, it's not surprising that we should see daylight more commonly depicted during waking hours than what many Americans experience.

Presumably this reverses during the opposite season.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#92

Post by 35787 »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #85
35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

That was a highly negative recollection, sorry that you had such a bad experience. I was schooled through public in a poor urban district and it was rough but I learned a lot. I also taught science in very poor districts for years and most students liked school. Its akin to a job for kids, somewhat crushing to many but ultimately we do need to train and socialize and educate our populace. Home and private and charter…

You were one of the kids who didn’t fall through the cracks so good for you? I guess this means the cracks don’t matter? Never mind the blatant insanity? Shooter drills are on Wednesday’s, no bother!

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#93

Post by polynomial »

carapace wrote: post #66

All this commotion around what time to begin soul-crushing conformity factory amuses me grimly. Studies show children are slightly less psychologically crippled for life if you let them sleep in for an hour before putting them in the electric Skinner Box. Terrific.

We're gonna need a box tightener over here, someone is thinking outside it.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#94

Post by whymsicalburito »

35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

I really enjoyed my public education, but I realize we happen to have very very good public schools in my city. I'm sorry your experience was so bad.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#95

Post by epmaybe »

I'm extremely oblivious to what the benefits to starting later are, and how stable the benefits will be over time. Anyone care to explain?

I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#96

Post by whymsicalburito »

35787 wrote: post #90
armenarmen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the only place that most people will ever experience physical violence.

This is true for me. Public schools are so horrible that it drives me insane just to think about it. And people brush it off because of some vague notion that there’s no other choice. Look at billy eilish. She’s fantastic and very successful and she was homeschooled. Palmer luckey who founded oculus and is now worth something like 500 million dollars, homeschooled. “I can’t afford homeschooling. I have never even tri…

Of course there are exceptions, but most homeschooled people I've met have displayed some sort of social deficiency. I wouldn't support a blanket statement that the solution is more home schooling.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#97

Post by gfdgsgaagrhstrs »

35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

So what's the alternative? Just fuck over poor people? Idiotic credits for charter schools?

Maybe you deserved to be bullied for being a sniveling antisocial dweeb.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#98

Post by ryanhuff »

epmaybe wrote: post #95

I'm extremely oblivious to what the benefits to starting later are, and how stable the benefits will be over time. Anyone care to explain? I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.

As the parent of a high school freshman boy, I've observed that his demand for sleep seems to have recently gone up, but so has his school work load. He's regularly up until 11pm doing homework as it is, and waking up tired at 7am the following day. If they simply shift his school start and end times 30 minutes later, I don't see much net benefit for him.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#99

Post by mLuby »

epmaybe wrote: post #95

I'm extremely oblivious to what the benefits to starting later are, and how stable the benefits will be over time. Anyone care to explain? I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.

That assumes sleep(2100, 0500) == sleep(2300, 0700), which anecdataly is false.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#100

Post by joshvm »

epmaybe wrote: post #95

I'm extremely oblivious to what the benefits to starting later are, and how stable the benefits will be over time. Anyone care to explain? I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.

The benefits are sleep, as the article says. I would guess this outweighs the risk that a few students use the opportunity to stay up longer. (although pre 8am seems excessively early to me - we started around 8:50)

> I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.

This is missing the point. Teenagers staying up late is often interpreted as laziness or disobedience, when there is increasing evidence that it's a symptom of an (ab)normal circadian rhythm.

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