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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#81

Post by malandrew »

standardUser wrote: post #36
graphememes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ever thinks about the edge cases

Yes they do. Under this law, extracurricular and voluntary "early bird" classes are still allowed before 8am.

Typically they don't until they are forced to by an adversarial process. Compare AB5 in its original form versus what was eventually passed. The number of professional groups that stepped in and pushed for exceptions for their trade is a testament to how poorly the original authors of AB5 did thinking about the edge cases. By the time it passed, it was largely exceptions.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#82

Post by armenarmen »

35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

They’re the only place that most people will ever experience physical violence.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#83

Post by lonelappde »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #48
meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.

You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences?

And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#84

Post by cardiffspaceman »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #46
JimboOmega wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles is far south, even in the context of California; that's not true for San Francisco. Also the shortest day of the year isn't the day of the latest sunrise - that'd be the day before daylight savings time ends. On that day in San Francisco civil Twilight is at 7:08 and full daylight isn't until 7:35. If we put aside daylight savings shenanigans, it's still not the same day (because of how the earth's orbit…

> I definitely shared the experience (growing up in the mid Atlantic) of catching buses before true sunrise so I could get to a 7:40 AM start in the winter months. I That reminds me I have a vague memory that there was a lot of pissing when Nixon Admin moved up daylights savings time during the first oil crisis. Parents were complaining that their kids were having to walk to school in the dark. Back then city and sub…

Except high school kids with driver's licenses. Which is not even safer or anything.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#85

Post by Dumblydorr »

35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

That was a highly negative recollection, sorry that you had such a bad experience. I was schooled through public in a poor urban district and it was rough but I learned a lot. I also taught science in very poor districts for years and most students liked school. Its akin to a job for kids, somewhat crushing to many but ultimately we do need to train and socialize and educate our populace. Home and private and charter schools all are important but public schools are essential to training our next generation.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#86

Post by lonelappde »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #49
socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

As someone who lives in a country where schools all uniformly started at 9:00 am (i'm probably wrong on that, but lets just go with it), what's the social-background/theoretical reason for starting the school day at 7:00am? From the outside that just seems absolutely bonkers?

Buses need time to do 2 or 3 routes.

School scheduling is thanks to suburban sprawl and the twi-income trap bringing mothers and fathers out of the home.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#87

Post by polynomial »

matt-attack wrote: post #77
non-entity wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

And mom is fixing bacon and eggs and no one is eating, dad is seated with the morning paper with his tie on. Mom in her robe or apron is the stove happily serving everyone.

So, MAGA dreaming.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#88

Post by gregpilling »

btilly wrote: post #55

Wonderful. Now can we pay attention to all of the research saying that homework creates stress but doesn't work, and have schools stop assigning so much? More precisely, the research shows that homework done right helps, done wrong hurts, and the result is that more homework increases the correlation between parent's socioeconomic status and student performance. But on average is approximately net neutral for learnin…

I have 4 children and I actively help them with/cheat on their homework. They are assigned too damn much of it. They are all getting good grades and I don't think it is impacting them academically.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#89

Post by polynomial »

btilly wrote: post #55

Wonderful. Now can we pay attention to all of the research saying that homework creates stress but doesn't work, and have schools stop assigning so much? More precisely, the research shows that homework done right helps, done wrong hurts, and the result is that more homework increases the correlation between parent's socioeconomic status and student performance. But on average is approximately net neutral for learnin…

A more specific case of the general principle that work involves conflict.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#90

Post by 35787 »

armenarmen wrote: post #82
35787 wrote: post #78

Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their studen…

They’re the only place that most people will ever experience physical violence.

This is true for me. Public schools are so horrible that it drives me insane just to think about it. And people brush it off because of some vague notion that there’s no other choice. Look at billy eilish. She’s fantastic and very successful and she was homeschooled. Palmer luckey who founded oculus and is now worth something like 500 million dollars, homeschooled. “I can’t afford homeschooling. I have never even tried to assemble a budget or think critically about it but I just know it would be too expensive and would not work because nobody was ever successful after homeschooling. I guess I’ll just throw my child to the lions and hope they don’t become a shooter.”
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