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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#211

Post by vinay427 »

lukeqsee wrote: post #129
mytailorisrich wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make sure you are knowledgeable about raclette. https://www.thelocal.ch/20180604/brit-denied-swiss-citizensh...

I've heard similar stories, but all of the regulation surrounding citizenship is not so homogeneous between towns, cantons, etc. So some cantons might only require a basic understanding while others grill you like this. It'll be a few years before I discover how it is in St. Gallen. :)

Based on the commune/canton residency restrictions in St. Gallen for naturalizing, I can't imagine they'd love to see people completing the process. :/

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#212

Post by vinay427 »

kimi wrote: post #22
vasili111 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How easy/difficult to get Switzerland citizenship if you live and work there? 2. How popular is English language is in Switzerland IT companies?

Citizenship is relatively hard: you have to be a resident for 12+ years to start the process. A lot of people never bother - a long term residency permit ("C") is almost as good, but you don't vote and do not have military duties. Everybody speaks English; I know a number of people in Zürich who never bothered to learn German, as there is a large expat community and everything is multi-lingual.

It's 10+ years for citizenship as of a few years ago. Also, I doubt the military duties will apply to the vast majority of people that move there as adults and then start the process of residency and naturalization.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#214

Post by sudosteph »

foobarian wrote: post #206
CountSessine wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should wages go up to match outrageous expenses? People are being squeezed, but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. I hear this all the time in Vancouver - people blaming this squeeze on stagnant wages - as if the labour market could ever pay people enough to keep pace with supply-constrained, monopolistic markets. The rent is too damn high. And we know why, but ... somehow we just want…

I wonder if a group of disgruntled engineers could up and buy a large piece of land somewhere and start a town with better ground rules that would avoid the NIMBY/rent seeking traps. Would need to limit property ownership in a major way somehow.

I'm convinced that housing cooperatives are going to become more mainstream for exactly this reason. I know other millennials who would do a co-op in a heartbeat The biggest hurdles are setting up the legal terms and the fact that financing is much harder than for single family homes (no FHA loans).

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#215

Post by netsharc »

mywittyname wrote: post #13
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

How was the process of obtaining a work visa / citizenship?

It's probably easier applying to a company in the EU, if you google "EU blue card program", for IT jobs, if you have a university degree and a job offer from a company, you'll get a residency permit (what you're calling a work visa).

If you really want to move to Switzerland, be a taxpayer for 7 years in Germany, learn German, stay out of trouble and unemployment, and you can apply to be a German citizen. After that, moving to Switzerland is easy: show the authorities your job contract with a Swiss company, they're obliged to give you a residency permit (at least that's the arrangement they have with the EU at the moment)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#217

Post by aripickar »

burntoutfire wrote: post #187
aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

> 4) Money is better in the US. I currently make about 160k USD, which is more than pretty much any European Dev will make. If you're contracting in London at 600 GBP per day (not an unreasonable amount for a senior in demand, it's very possible to get more than than), then assuming 2 weeks of vacation and 1 week of public holidays, you make 147k GBP, which amounts to $185k. You can make even more in Scandinavian cou…

Thats probably true, but thats someone at the top of the field in of the most expensive places to contract. I am very much not a senior engineer, I started as a new grad about 6 weeks ago.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#218

Post by sjg007 »

kornakiewicz wrote: post #191
CountSessine wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should wages go up to match outrageous expenses? People are being squeezed, but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. I hear this all the time in Vancouver - people blaming this squeeze on stagnant wages - as if the labour market could ever pay people enough to keep pace with supply-constrained, monopolistic markets. The rent is too damn high. And we know why, but ... somehow we just want…

> but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. It is not. The value fire-fighters, teachers or nurses provide is much higher than, say, an enterprise developer, yet in most places the other earns more.

Firefighters can make bank.. overtime and all that. Teachers are underpaid and nurses are probably too but they too can do well working overtime etc...

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#219

Post by drawkbox »

goatinaboat wrote: post #189
drawkbox wrote: post #41

The list seems like a dream, especially the healthcare part and the neutrality of the Swiss, not as extreme and divided. The housing, taxes and pay are icing on the cake. To top it off, Switzerland looks like a dreamland with all those amazing views.

The housing If you have a shower or run a bath or do laundry in your apartment outside of the designated hours, your neighbours will complain to the landlord and you may be evicted. The Swiss are very, very fond of rules, and even fonder of enforcing them.

I did see that you can't do laundry on Sunday in the article, strange.

> Swiss society is built on the principle of local communities and public engagement. Swiss people have a high sense of ownership and like to decide on how the things are shaped around them.

> This might seem too restrictive for some people because of some seemingly silly rules, like: no laundry on Sunday but it leads to a generally happy society which is able to solve its problems.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#220

Post by mercutio2 »

aripickar wrote: post #169
tumetab1 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the 46$ just that part you pay? In other words, isn't your employer paying the rest? This is just for clarification that we're comparing apples to apples.

I guess that’s true. Sorry, not to versed in healthcare costs, it’s the first time I had to pick my own plan and/or pay for it.

You’re also, I’m guessing, young with no dependents.

The employee portion of health care costs goes up dramatically as you age (even if you don’t pay for other people); you can’t project from your health care costs in your 20s out to middle age.

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