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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#201

Post by mrep »

Wow, talk about making me not want to move to Switzerland. Granted, I'm not in the bay area but...

1. Accommodation prices seem about the same where I live.

2. I work 40 hours a week too

3. 20 minute bus ride for me so no "2 hour commute".

4. 120,000 CHF for a senior? I make over 200,000 and I have less than 4 years of experience. That would be a huge pay cut.

5. 35% income taxes + state? This is just blatantly false as effective federal income tax rate doesn't hit 35% until over a million. I for example paid just 22% in federal income taxes including social security and medicare.

6. My biweekly copay is just $50. Granted, I am on a high deductible plan but the deductible is only 1300 with a max out of pocket limit of 2600 a year and I have a health savings account which allows me to save/invest 100% tax free income for health care spending.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#203

Post by 0xffff2 »

victor106 wrote: post #89
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

Meanwhile I pay $80/month for 12Mbs cable from Comcast in Silicon Valley. My only other option is DSL. I'm not going to be moving to Switzerland any time soon, but the internet situation in the US is spotty and inconsistent at best.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#204

Post by vinay427 »

eejjjj82 wrote: post #144
victor106 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

not to turn this into a 1-up session, but 100CHF is an overestimate. i pay 49.99/mo for 10Gbps symmetric https://fiber.salt.ch/en

Last I checked, Salt is much more shaky with speeds and some of the bandwidth may be shared. With the EWZ municipal fiber in Zurich (served by one of the private companies like the GP mentioned) I get the speeds I pay for all the time. I've heard worse things about Salt, but I won't complain about a better option so I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#205

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

amyjess wrote: post #77
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Personally, I'd rather avoid both SV and CH and just live in Texas. $1/sq. ft. ($10.76/m²) is still the norm in Dallas, and it's not too hard to find cheaper. You would pay less money for a decent-size house in the suburbs of Dallas than the cheapest 1-bedroom apartment in SV or Zurich.

Same. I'll stay in Texas with my $75k 3-bedroom house and no state taxes.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#206

Post by foobarian »

CountSessine wrote: post #99
config_yml wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago, the rule was rent should not be more than 1/4 of your gross salary. The rule just gets adjusted, we're currently at 1/3. Same thing goes down with health care costs. People are squeezed for it, because they have no choice. Meanwhile wages are stagnating and can't keep up with the rising cost of living.

Why should wages go up to match outrageous expenses? People are being squeezed, but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. I hear this all the time in Vancouver - people blaming this squeeze on stagnant wages - as if the labour market could ever pay people enough to keep pace with supply-constrained, monopolistic markets. The rent is too damn high. And we know why, but ... somehow we just want…

I wonder if a group of disgruntled engineers could up and buy a large piece of land somewhere and start a town with better ground rules that would avoid the NIMBY/rent seeking traps. Would need to limit property ownership in a major way somehow.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#207

Post by googlethrow »

aty268 wrote: post #67

Few things: 1) Salaries are essentially capped at $120,000. 2) Stock options are very rare. Basically, you can't get rich. No different than working at Google but with lower salary potential. This is why Switzerland will never be the next SV.

The total comp at Google Zürich starts at 160K chf/year for new grads. It can go much higher with counteroffers.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#208

Post by vonmoltke »

asdfman123 wrote: post #103
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…

> In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas [...]) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k

My 15 YOE ass left Dallas three years ago partly because I couldn't break $100k there. Where are these jobs?

That said, I bought my house in 2008 for $175k.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#209

Post by vinay427 »

lukeqsee wrote: post #17
mywittyname wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the process of obtaining a work visa / citizenship?

It took me about 10 minutes at the local city hall. However, my wife is Swiss, so I'm very much an exception. If you don't have a familial connection, you need to find a job, and the company will need to prove they couldn't find a local Swiss resident/citizen that could have done the same job, so it's a bit harder to get in than Germany or other areas of the EU. Edit: I'm on a multi-year residency visa. I'll need to…

No, they need to prove that they can't find a Swiss/EU/EEA citizen (not necessarily a resident, just an applicant) that could do the same job. EU/EEA citizens are on par with Swiss citizens in every sector except for possibly civil service, at least for now, though referendums repeatedly seem to pass that would limit this freedom for both sides.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#210

Post by netsharc »

goatinaboat wrote: post #189
drawkbox wrote: post #41

The list seems like a dream, especially the healthcare part and the neutrality of the Swiss, not as extreme and divided. The housing, taxes and pay are icing on the cake. To top it off, Switzerland looks like a dreamland with all those amazing views.

The housing If you have a shower or run a bath or do laundry in your apartment outside of the designated hours, your neighbours will complain to the landlord and you may be evicted. The Swiss are very, very fond of rules, and even fonder of enforcing them.

Source? Exaggerate much?
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