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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#111

Post by ike0790 »

KPLauritzen wrote: post #82
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Edit: I was wrong. I'm comparing monthly cost and yearly income. I think your math is wrong. 4,000 CHF / 100,000 CHF = 4%

I'm gonna go on a limb and say the 2500-4000 CHF was per month which would be 30,000-48,000 per year :)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#112

Post by CalChris »

lultimouomo wrote: post #65
ElDji wrote: post #19

Please note that the labour market is regulated in Switzerland and that, depending on where you come from (especially outside EU), it may be difficult or impossible to obtain a work permit.

Is that different from Silicon Valley?

You may be thinking of H1-B work visas. Those are capped but nationally rather than for Silicon Valley.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#113

Post by saiya-jin »

drawkbox wrote: post #41

The list seems like a dream, especially the healthcare part and the neutrality of the Swiss, not as extreme and divided. The housing, taxes and pay are icing on the cake. To top it off, Switzerland looks like a dreamland with all those amazing views.

What housing do you mean? It is truly amazing here in many aspects, but housing is worse than rest of Europe. Rents are very high, you compete with many many people so any drawback on your resume (non-perfect job, kids, pets, coming from non-cool country) disqualifies you quickly. Houses/apartments are old, badly designed since there is little pressure to improve (people will come anyway). This is valid for biggest cities, some rural places might be better.

This and taking care for the kids (Switzerland is ranked among the worst/most difficult places globally to have kids, can confirm) are biggest drawbacks. Still worth it, but definitely not for everyone.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#114

Post by dilyevsky »

izacus wrote: post #81
jankotek wrote: post #21

Rent in Zurich is $4000 a month and that as an advantage? Is that a joke? Many workers in Switzerland commute daily from foreign countries to save money.

$4000 for rent is not normal for Zurich, and a 25 minute comfortable train commute drops the rent significantly lower. Try getting a 25 minute commute in SV.

That’s 25 min to hb? And then you have to change trains or take a tram or whatever. So not 25 mins

Edit: 25 mins to 4th&kings get you as far as Hillsdale which is considerably cheaper too.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#115

Post by config_yml »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #75
aty268 wrote: post #67

Few things: 1) Salaries are essentially capped at $120,000. 2) Stock options are very rare. Basically, you can't get rich. No different than working at Google but with lower salary potential. This is why Switzerland will never be the next SV.

I’m pretty sure Google Zurich pays more than $120k.

Depends on the position of course, but they pay much less than in the US. If you want to rake in cash, don't go for a tech job. It's much easier to make > 200k in some random middle management position at a bank.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#116

Post by mytailorisrich »

mywittyname wrote: post #13
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

How was the process of obtaining a work visa / citizenship?

Make sure you are knowledgeable about raclette.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180604/brit-denied-swiss-citizensh...

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#117

Post by lukeqsee »

victor106 wrote: post #89
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

> That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland.

I actually pay 60,- CHF, plus a bit extra for a static IP + IPv6. I was saying I have that option for four providers all under 100. :)

> Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color that they faced more racism in Switzerland

I can't speak directly to this, since I am not a PoC. What I have observed is the racism that exists appears to be of a different type than is typical in the US. It is more an aversion to outsiders than against a particular class of people. But again, I can't really speak to it since I'm not in the position to be on the receiving end of it. (Everyone thinks I'm Swiss until I open my mouth.)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#118

Post by qaq »

xz0r wrote: post #105
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

> that means that we can calculate your rent there to be between 30% to 48%. But I guess, just because it is in Switzerland, it should not be outrageous? The article assumes that you would share the flat with others. Sharing with 2 others would mean effective rent is 800-1300 CHF.

3 people in 50m flat doesn't sound amazing.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#119

Post by akhilcacharya »

dilyevsky wrote: post #100
akhilcacharya wrote: post #16

> If you want to save on the premium and keep yourself healthy then you pick the 2500 franchise and pay as little as 300 CHF per month for healthcare insurance. That's..surprisingly expensive for someone that's not self-employed. I didn't think it would be that expensive. Meanwhile for me it's about $30 a month for my HSA employer plan with a lower deductible.

That and many other points are hilarious and shows clearly author doesn’t know what they are talking about. I have a family platinum ($0 deductible) kaiser hmo for much less money through my employer. These days even startups can beat that in sfbay. Point about swiss “diversity” is also funny

Yeah I don’t think it’s a favorable comparison point for SWEs.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#120

Post by tiagopc »

mistrial9 wrote: post #102

my brilliant colleague went to Zurich for a year to work with finance people on math problems. He said that it was not the culture to mix socially, he liked to ride his road bike in the good weather, and basically, he worked the entire year without making any friends or being social. Then he left. It was expensive for him at the time (no details) even as a well-paid young math programmer, so it was not a big financia…

I agree with this one on some part. It will depend on the city. For Zurich, I agree with that but for Geneva, where I live, that does not apply. The cultural diversity here is way bigger when comparing to Zurich, the fact that a lot of international organizations (UN, Red Cross) are based here may help with that.
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