Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#91

Post by HorkHunter » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

I'm in Vienna and its pretty normal here to rent for 40-50% of your salary. otherwise you'd move to the far outskirts of the city.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#92

Post by throwaway_law » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

config_yml wrote: post #74

greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

10 years ago, the rule was rent should not be more than 1/4 of your gross salary. The rule just gets adjusted, we're currently at 1/3. Same thing goes down with health care costs. People are squeezed for it, because they have no choice. Meanwhile wages are stagnating and can't keep up with the rising cost of living.

Yep, so now the US government is providing the following helpful formula 33% of salary goes to taxes; 33% to housing and 33% to student loans. You better be good at budget because everything else must be covered by that 1%

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#93

Post by dls2016 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #11

zerr wrote: post #2

Cons: no Sun and the salaries seem to be capped at CHF 120-140K. Has that old school European mindset that managers and MBAs should be paid more than individual contributors, engineers.

Not only does Switzerland have a Sun, it has the same Sun as California, just on a slightly different schedule.

The cosine function would like to have a word with you...

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#94

Post by ojbyrne » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #55

notus wrote: post #8

What about formal requirements? The software field in the US is known for not caring a whole lot about people's educational backgrounds as long as they can do the job. Is Switzerland the same or are degrees hard requirements?

Maybe the companies don't care, but apparently the US government does. There's a hard requirement for H-1B, that the applicant hold at least a four-year bachelor’s degree in a relevant field or its equivalent, and will be employed in a position which requires such a degree.

From uscis.gov: ‘Have education, training, or progressively responsible experience in the specialty that is equivalent to the completion of such a degree, and have recognition of expertise in the specialty through progressively responsible positions directly related to the specialty.’

https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#95

Post by pbh101 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

KPLauritzen wrote: post #82

greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Edit: I was wrong. I'm comparing monthly cost and yearly income. I think your math is wrong. 4,000 CHF / 100,000 CHF = 4%

4000 * 12 months = 48000 CHF

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#96

Post by hocuspocus » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

lormayna wrote: post #80

No one is mentioning that healthcare is not free (as in the other European country), but you must pay a very expensive insurance.

Insurance itself isn't very expensive compared to what you pay (through mandatory contributions) elsewhere in Europe.

Deductibles are high and healthcare is expensive, and the overall fake competition and illusion of choice among private insurers is bullshit, I agree. But in absolute I'd pay a lot more in countries like France or Germany.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#97

Post by KPLauritzen » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #83

KPLauritzen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I was wrong. I'm comparing monthly cost and yearly income. I think your math is wrong. 4,000 CHF / 100,000 CHF = 4%

I'm pretty sure the 4000 CHF is monthly :)

Oops. My bad.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#98

Post by fenk85 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

That article lists income tax at 12.5% that is WRONG! that is the corporate tax rate

Income tax in Ireland (including everything) is 20-30% below average ~EUR35K (tax credit dependant) about 50% above this point on every euro.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#99

Post by CountSessine » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

config_yml wrote: post #74

greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

10 years ago, the rule was rent should not be more than 1/4 of your gross salary. The rule just gets adjusted, we're currently at 1/3. Same thing goes down with health care costs. People are squeezed for it, because they have no choice. Meanwhile wages are stagnating and can't keep up with the rising cost of living.

Why should wages go up to match outrageous expenses? People are being squeezed, but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour.

I hear this all the time in Vancouver - people blaming this squeeze on stagnant wages - as if the labour market could ever pay people enough to keep pace with supply-constrained, monopolistic markets. The rent is too damn high. And we know why, but ... somehow we just want to throw more money in the fire? You can pay people however much you want, but without addressing the market dysfunctions all of those higher wages will wind up in the hands of landlords and health insurance companies.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#100

Post by dilyevsky » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #16

> If you want to save on the premium and keep yourself healthy then you pick the 2500 franchise and pay as little as 300 CHF per month for healthcare insurance. That's..surprisingly expensive for someone that's not self-employed. I didn't think it would be that expensive. Meanwhile for me it's about $30 a month for my HSA employer plan with a lower deductible.

That and many other points are hilarious and shows clearly author doesn’t know what they are talking about. I have a family platinum ($0 deductible) kaiser hmo for much less money through my employer. These days even startups can beat that in sfbay. Point about swiss “diversity” is also funny