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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#201

Post by brodsky »

damnyou wrote: post #181
pembrook wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a perfect illustration of the bizarre irrationality people have when discussing Apple. You’re stuck on a 6+ year old piece of software because Adobe moved to a higher priced cloud-based model...maybe you should be mad at Adobe...6 years ago...not Apple?

You should be mad at the company with the bigger market cap, which isn't Adobe.

that's a weird criterion. market cap has little to nothing to do with it. I don't think it's reasonable to be mad at anyone in this particular situation - we all knew that 32-bit was going away - but there are certainly other reasons to be disappointed by both Apple and Adobe separately.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#202

Post by scarface74 »

Aloha wrote: post #187
ratww wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their rationale is that they don't want to maintain 32-bit and 64-bit code forever. But IMO, Apple should have removed Carbon last year (six years after deprecation). That would have made the removal of 32-bit Cocoa a bit less traumatic.

Making CarbonLib an optional component several years ago would have made it clearer to users that "this is going away"

“Users” don’t know what CarbonLib is. When Apple announced that they weren’t porting CarbonLib, developers knew.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#203

Post by ohiovr »

pembrook wrote: post #185
KenanSulayman wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? He literally chose to stick with the old software, protesting with his money. Seriously though, what's the problem with expecting 32bit software to keep working?

The same problem with expecting 8-bit software to keep working. All organizations have limited resources. Each hour spent supporting 32 bit is an hour that could’ve been spent on more important things.

8 bit software still works.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#204

Post by edoceo »

KenanSulayman wrote: post #178
pembrook wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a perfect illustration of the bizarre irrationality people have when discussing Apple. You’re stuck on a 6+ year old piece of software because Adobe moved to a higher priced cloud-based model...maybe you should be mad at Adobe...6 years ago...not Apple?

Why though? He literally chose to stick with the old software, protesting with his money. Seriously though, what's the problem with expecting 32bit software to keep working?

You should expect it to work, naturally. But if you make an environment change (eg upgrade) well, the softwares expectations have changed so your expectations should change too.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#205

Post by UnpossibleJim »

pembrook wrote: post #185
KenanSulayman wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? He literally chose to stick with the old software, protesting with his money. Seriously though, what's the problem with expecting 32bit software to keep working?

The same problem with expecting 8-bit software to keep working. All organizations have limited resources. Each hour spent supporting 32 bit is an hour that could’ve been spent on more important things.

Or, he chose to go with the software he had bought instead of moving to Adobe's new model of software as a service, where you pay a subscription fee plus an up front cost to use their software. It isn't so easy as "choosing not to upgrade to 64 bit" when the production company makes untenable demands. At this point, it's almost better struggling through with GIMP and Inkscape (almost) than dealing with the corporate hellscape that Adobe has become.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#206

Post by anoncake »

camillomiller wrote: post #150
thomascgalvin wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing 32 bit support is going to cost me about $600 per year, because I still have a pre-CC copy of Photoshop, In Design, and so on. I am absolutely furious at Apple for this.

What is the value that photoshop is adding to your business? Is it conducive to you earning enough to maintain a subscription? If not, why do you use photoshop? If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby. Not defending adobe here, just giving a different perspective. Moreover, why should Apple stick with legacy tech to appease users like you?

> If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby.

It's inefficient. You should get a good if its marginal cost is below its value to you. If Photoshop is worth 550 to you, the marginal cost of a copy is neglible and Adobe charges 600 €, you don't buy it and the market just threw away 550 €.

That is partially justified in that the business somehow has to finance the actual development and other fixed costs, and we don't have a much better mechanism for that yet. But preventing someone from using software because they can't afford someone's profits is just pure waste.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#207

Post by fiblye »

watertom wrote: post #195
AndrewDavis wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that situation I'd be mad at both. But primarily Apple. Apple broke my working software. Emphasis on the working part. Upgrading even with one time payment software would still mean hundreds of dollars forked out because Apple broke it. If it wasn't broken I wouldn't upgrade.

Apple did not break your working software. It still runs on older versions of the OS. Let's face it you are cheap, you weren't willing to keep up with the Adobe products you purchased and now you want to blame someone, instead of blaming yourself, you've decided it's someone else's fault. I have pre-CC version of the Adobe products, and I run the an older version of OSX on my Mac Pro. I'm not willing to pay the price…

> Let's face it you are cheap,

Or, hear me out here, some people can’t afford to buy new Adobe software because it’s ridiculously expensive. They’re not wealthy enough to call themselves cheap.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#208

Post by dangus »

ratww wrote: post #136
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

> This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game platform, compared to Windows which can run decades old games fine. But this has happened before. Pretty much every pre-2007 Mac game stopped working in 2012 after they removed Rosetta, their PPC emulator. And 64-bit Intel has been available since Leopard, released in 2007. So that leaves a tiny window of 32-bit only releases. On the other hand, the removal of Open…

And it’s happened on the Windows side, too.

You can’t just run transport tycoon, rollercoaster tycoon, or xcom without any sort of modification on Windows 10. You’re either using an open source drop-in game engine or a packaged DOSBox setup from Steam. Or in the case of Rollercoaster Tycoon, a rewritten game (RTC Classic).

Windows 10 doesn’t run 16-bit applications, and Windows 10 doesn’t work nicely with a large amount of Windows XP era software.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#209

Post by edoceo »

scarface74 wrote: post #137
turndown wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>By definition, the less code you have to maintain the less surface area for vulnerabilities. It does not sound like you have any legitimate information about how Windows compatability increases vulnerabilites beyond vague statements. Trust me when I say that no one here thinks Windows is terribly secure, just that Mac OS X isn't secure at all either, and doesn't provide backwards compatability on top. >If that were…

Samsung and every other vendor outside of China have announced lower sales as people keep their phones longer. While everyone admits that Mac keyboards are horrible, Mac sales are so small compared to everything else Apple sells, it doesn’t really hurt their bottom line both of my roommates who have iPhone Xs are thinking about switching to Android after being plagued with constant hardware and software issues. Anecd…

Oh, crap! DCOM! I'm have trauma just seeing those letters in that order.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#210

Post by dangus »

MereInterest wrote: post #84
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

This is also why all programs should be distributed with source code. If not, you are at the mercy of the platform not to break what you have bought.

That ultimatum is idealistic at best.

Not only that, the recourse of inspecting and modifying the code isn’t realistic to most people. Many open source projects die just because literally nobody with the skills required to maintain them are interested.

Then you get to certain types of programs where open source provides no benefit: specifically, games.

Games are largely just artistic content. Making games open source essentially means that all the content is going to be taken without compensating the artists. Open source works for other programs because they depend on interoperability. But games are just content, like a movie or book. The source is the product. For other programs, support and continual development are the product.

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