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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#101

Post by [deleted] »

Sendotsh wrote: post #89
skybrian wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the hand, most people stop playing most games pretty quickly after purchase, too. And the good ones often get remade. So, while this will disappoint some people, I think "destroys the reputation" is a bit much. Many game buyers don't care that much.

Top 2 games being played worldwide in steam right now were made 7 years ago. TF2 was made in 2007 and is still in the top 10. There’s also a huge number of gamers who played older games. In my friends list I’d say roughly half at any given time are imaging non-AA games that are at least 5 years old, and more than half at least regularly play older games. Going back and playing favourites is an absolutely integral par…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#102

Post by scarface74 »

stuartd wrote: post #73
scarface74 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much has it cost Microsoft? Apple was able to successfully take the base of MacOS and port it’s operating system to a much lower spec phone back in 2007 and came to dominate the smart phone market (in profit they only thing that matters), the tablet market where MS failed repeatedly, not to mention it was able to port the base OS to everything from Watches and TV set top boxes - all things that Microsoft trie…

It's worth considering the different markets here. Raymond Chen [0] posted this in 2006 - "On the importance of backwards compatibility for large corporations" [1] > Representatives from the IT department of a major worldwide corporation came to Redmond and took time out of their busy schedule to give a talk on how their operations are set up. I was phenomenally impressed. These people know their stuff. Definitely a…

Well seeing how Microsoft’s profits have increased compare to Apple’s, which was the better idea? Selling to consumers or businesses?

And MS’s recent successes have had nothing to do with Windows. MS’s growth has come from o365 being available everywhere and Azure - where most of the VMs are in fact Linux not Windows. Not to mention that .Net for Windows and all of the related technology (WinForms, WPF, etc) are in maintenance mode while MS concentrates on cross platform .Net Core.

Microsoft is doing the same thing with Windows that SJ said he would do with the Mac “milk it for all it’s worth and move on to the next big thing”. MS is running away from Windows as it’s cash cow quickly.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#103

Post by flohofwoe »

cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

IME that's mostly true for traditional single player games, while even mildly successful multiplayer games may have an incredibly long tail (at east a decade or so?) where they are "paying the bills" very comfortably even though they're long past their heyday.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#104

Post by scarface74 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #54
scarface74 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. It’s also nice to have other Apple products that MS could never produce because they worshipped at the alter of backwards compatibility. Running outdated code on a bloated operating system doesn’t benefit me.

What product on the PC does the Apple have that MS could never produce?

How is MS doing with phones? tablets? Watches ($15-$20 billion dollars in revenue and profitable), heck even set top boxes?

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#105

Post by 13415 »

umvi wrote: post #10
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's got nothing to do with security. These (versions of) apps do not include 64-bit builds, which is required for Catalina support.

Well, like I said, cutting out the cruft. 32-bit is obsolete - it's 2019 for heaven's sake. Maybe these companies will put forth more of an effort to keep their software up to snuff.

Unlikely. Speaking for myself, I have decided to drop support for MacOS starting with Catalina. I might still provide an experimental built, but it's just too much of a pain in the ass to support the platform long-term. I've been doing this for 20 years and almost every OS upgrade there is some kind of trouble or unnecessary things to do. I'm not in it for the money anyway, but to be honest, I really doubt that MacOS support is worth it for most small companies.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#106

Post by _jal »

bsamuels wrote: post #85
greggman2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to run them in a VM with and old OS the same as older games?

Can you imagine a world where someone who wants to play old Mac games has half a dozen VM containers with different versions of MacOS on them for each game that's compatible with each version? I can't

This is probably more common than you might think.

I don't play games much, but I do need some software that only runs on Windows, and do this. One VM is Win7, the other is Win10. Neither get network access, so I don't worry about either surveillance or updates.

I also have a VM that runs a really old version of Debian, because I have a couple UPSes that don't support modern ssh.

I suspect we'll also see phone emulation for compatibility becoming more of a thing. Granted, the vast bulk of that software is garbage that nobody cares about, but there are things seeing increasing enterprise use. Someone will go out of business and orphan something people count on at some point.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#107

Post by gbear605 »

vortico wrote: post #79
scarface74 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I trust your application to run rampant on my computer? Since when was it a bad thing to isolate what an application can do? Even if you aren’t being purposefully malicious and being sloppy you can still cause damage. Look at what happen with the Google Chrome installer on Macs that had system integrity protection turned off. https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262?hl=en

It's nonsense because it didn't exist before. Imagine you're a long-time user of my software. You upgrade your operating system (because's Apple's marketing tells you to) and find that my software doesn't work anymore. Who made the change? Apple. Who do customers complain to? Me. Despite any argument, Apple's change has cost me $1000+ of development costs for users to continue using my software. Apple is not my custo…

You're not doing work for Apple, you're doing work that helps your existing customers have more secure systems.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#108

Post by scarface74 »

ahbyb wrote: post #71
scarface74 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. It’s also nice to have other Apple products that MS could never produce because they worshipped at the alter of backwards compatibility. Running outdated code on a bloated operating system doesn’t benefit me.

>Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. 10 year old code is insecure as opposed to the just-written code that replaces it?

They didn’t “replace it” they got rid of it. There was no replacement for Carbon for instance.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#109

Post by ratww »

scarface74 wrote: post #83
gruturo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that looks like a lot of time, except we're looking at some hard evidence saying it wasn't, after all. Apple helped push forward the state of the art on many things by dropping legacies (No floppy. No CD. No more serial, parallel, scsi, PS/2 ports), but on some it just hurt its own customers with excessive eagerness (USB-C and dongle hell. Headphone jacks, where the ideal timing would have been NEVER. And this v…

What do you mean they failed to account for that? They have a mechanism for signed apps outside of the store that doesn’t cost the developers anything and even that can be bypassed by a simple control click. But for reference. PPC Macs were introduced in 1994 and 68K emulation was dropped in 2006 with the introduction of x86 based Macs. OS X was introduced in 2001 and OS 9 support was dropped in 2006. PPC support was…

> PPC support was dropped in 2006 (?)

And Rosetta, the PPC emulator, was dropped in 2011, with Lion.

Only five years after the last PowerPC machine was discontinued.

Less than half the time it took to discontinue 32-bit.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#110

Post by harshalizee »

ellisv wrote: post #16
chimi wrote: post #2

This is why Microsoft is the better long-term play: Backwards compatibility -- their commitment to the investment of labor. If you build your software on Apple, there almost certainly will come a point in the future where your code will cease to work. Microsoft has made a commitment to backward compatibility. It's such a huge benefit. I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades . I don't have to upg…

> I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades. This isn’t always a good thing. I usually don’t like when a piece of software feels like it hasn’t been updated since the 90s. But I guess we don’t want some military defense system to break because it’s 32-bit either.

That is literally my metric for how good a piece of software is. If it can run for a long period of time with minimal to no maintenance that's the hallmark of good engineering. I couldn't care less about how dated it might look as long as gets the job done.
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