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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#171

Post by ilaksh »

StevePerkins wrote: post #82
ilaksh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary threat for payment processors and fiat currency is real cryptocurrency. Libra is a fake cryptocurrency that the payment processors and governments hoped would help to hold off the cryptocurrencies for a few extra years. It would have allowed the payment processors to continue to profit from transactions and made it practical for governments to control payments and wallets. They are probably pulling out fo…

I'm sorry. Sometimes goldbugs, and the crypto hardcore, get pretty far out there on the edge. It can be confusing whether something is an interesting point, worthy of discussion... or just outright "alternative reality", like climate change denial, that you should walk away from. Are you actually saying that: 1. The payment processors joined this consortium to AVOID helping crytocurrencies catch on in the mainstream?…

1. Look into the technical details carefully. Its not really a cryptocurrency except on the surface. Core aspects of the design absolutely preclude any truly distributed operation. Everything goes through a small number of nodes. It should be obvious that payment processors do not want cryptocurrencies to catch on. I know many people will never understand this, but the true purpose of cryptocurrency is to act as digital cash. This makes the payment processor business model obsolete.

2. My theory is that Visa et al voluntarily left for the time being because they could see that it was not going to work, and especially was not going to work with them sponsoring it. Facebook is never going to try for a real cryptocurrency, the model will stay the same, but if the project has any chance of moving forward (at this point it is a very slim chance) then it needs to disassociate at least temporarily from the payment processors. The technical parts will not actually become decentralized. Just the bad marketing from Visa and friends will go away for awhile.

It seems like there is a strong possibility that this particular project is going to be completely killed though anyway.

One more thing about the "alternative reality". Yes, my worldview is obviously very different from yours. But maybe if you consider carefully you may realize that your worldview may not be 100% accurate in all ways.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#172

Post by qaq »

kebman wrote: post #133
capableweb wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a for-profit company is running the currency, the users of the currency are in a loosing position. Remember, the for-profit company wants profit, so good luck fighting with them about the currency. "hundreds of global currencies" sounds like a good idea to me too, as long as they are out of the hands of for-profit companies.

Funny. The USA seems to have the complete opposite view to yours! :D The Federal Reserve is just about as close to a private company as any, running your entire economy. Certainly it's a for profit venture. But then that's profits funneled away from public coffers, and not to it. Sure, the Fed has a pretty clear mandate from the Congress, deputizing them into a certain public role, but other than that, they receive l…

You do realize that FED transfers it's profits to US Treasury to the tune of 100 billion dollars per year?

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#173

Post by john_moscow »

cjbest wrote: post #170
john_moscow wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a happy customer of both a bank and a grocery store. If one day the grocery store decides to also open a bank, I won't suddenly move my accounts there just because I go to the grocery store every week. That's why the grocery stores trying to offer credit cards usually have some loyalty programs (e.g. points/discounts for in-store purchases). And BTW, they typically just partner with existing banks and not try to…

Interestingly the grocery store bank thing more or less happened in Ontario and it’s quite good/popular: https://www.pcfinancial.ca/en

I am actually a happy user of this one (Vancouver, BC), but solely because the effective discount you get for using their card in the store is considerably higher than my regular card gives (there's a complicated system of points that add up nicely). And, yep, I still use my regular Visa Infinite for all other purchases because you can't beat their insurance and cashback rate.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#174

Post by mark_l_watson »

I wonder if this was government pressure. I think it was only going to be 50% denominated in US dollar. Making it easy to effectively (partially) transact in other currencies must not have gone over well.

EDIT: I assumed that Libra would be for many, many small transactions so banking know your customer KYC regulations imposed on banks in all countries by the US and other governments would not really apply. Also, does something like Apple Pay also fit the need for people paying people in other countries small amounts of money?

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#175

Post by xtracto »

john_moscow wrote: post #129
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

>1. Do a domestic wire to your broker's office in the originating economic zone.

>2. Wait for them to call you and confirm the exchange rate.

> 3. Receive a domestic wire from the broker's office in the destination economic zone.

> You often need to show the invoices/contracts showing the origin of the funds and the purpose of the transfer, but if you are running a legitimate business that pays taxes, you will need those for accounting reasons anyway

When my father used to do research in the 60/70s the way they got a paper was to write a (paper) letter to an author asking him for a copy, put it in the mail, wait for a couple of weeks, and then get an answer from the author with the paper. It was simple, easy and straightforward.

Fast forward 50 years, we have access to millions of articles at our fingertips in a second with the likes of scholar.google.com.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#176

Post by xtracto »

mamon wrote: post #63
pat87 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin can be killed by means other than technological. For example it can be outlawed. Sure, people would still be able to use it, but they would be breaking the law and that would deter many, possibly enough to kill it outright.

Bitcoin does not need to be killed because it’s dead already: proved to be useless for all practical purposes, now used mostly for money laundering or other criminal activities

> now used mostly for money laundering or other criminal activities That would be monero.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#177

Post by bobthepanda »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #167
bobthepanda wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it indicates that? Libra is backed by a basket of currencies or investments designed to spread risk around, which is a great idea unless a huge chunk goes belly up at the same time. And then what? We repeat the subprime mortgage crisis, where people also thought that there would never be mass defaults across the system at the same time?

Libra is not a bank, it’s a currency that’s pegged to other currencies. The asset backing is only because the initial value has to come from somewhere. It can’t default. It could decrease in value, but there’s no debt or counter party risk.

A run on a currency is still pretty disastrous for everybody involved, hence the need for a bank of last resort to shore up the currency when that happens.

All these alternative currencies look like they're solving a political science problem, not any actual problems that people have.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#179

Post by mark_l_watson »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #110
xabotage wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They had the ability to monitor all of your transactions and if they didn't like you they could roll back or block your transactions. Unlike, what, my established credit card company which still blocks me randomly when I'm traveling overseas even when I explicitly call their 800 hotline, sit on hold for 30 minutes, and tell some unempathetic worker "I'm overseas, don't block me"? Yes, thank goodness libra is dying,…

>Unlike, what, my established credit card company which still blocks me randomly when I'm traveling overseas even when I explicitly call their 800 hotline, sit on hold for 30 minutes, and tell some unempathetic worker "I'm overseas, don't block me"? Yes, thank goodness libra is dying, otherwise there might actually be some innovation against the exact things you just mentioned which perfectly describe the current sta…

Or, get an American Express card. I got one four years ago and then went to Singapore for a consulting gig. I called them to let them know where I would be and was told to please not bother, that they expect their customers to travel.

I was also really please last month to notice that Capital One didn’t charge international transaction fees when I was in Canada.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#180

Post by trakout »

lyqwyd wrote: post #143
john_moscow wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

What do you consider non-trivial? I transfer money to Africa on a regular basis, and I don’t have these same issues other than the difference between published exchange rate and realized, which is about 1-1.5%. Transfer fees are minimal. I transfer about $3,000 per month, but no I could go up to at least $10K without issue. Occasionally it can have a bit of a delay, but normally it closes in less than a minute, and I…

Which service, something like transferwise?
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