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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#161

Post by alasdair_ »

john_moscow wrote: post #149
lacker wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems silly to say there is no audience because it’s already possible to transfer money. Facebook is all about cloning an existing product and making it easy for millions of people use it by putting it in an app they already use for an hour every day. I think if they are permitted to launch, they will get a lot of people to use it.

I am a happy customer of both a bank and a grocery store. If one day the grocery store decides to also open a bank, I won't suddenly move my accounts there just because I go to the grocery store every week. That's why the grocery stores trying to offer credit cards usually have some loyalty programs (e.g. points/discounts for in-store purchases). And BTW, they typically just partner with existing banks and not try to…

You are not the target customer.

Grocery store handle a surprisingly large amount of money transfers and act as pseudo-banks to many of the unbanked. Some of them have their own banks on top and others have bank branches in them. Lots of people use these services.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#162

Post by jki275 »

SI_Rob wrote: post #138
jeremyjh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that a consortium of world governments cannot mount a permanent 51% attack against all crypto-coins that they wish? But it doesn't even need to be permanent, just a few hours would send the requisite message.

Or just block port 8333, or implement DPI and null route anything that looks like a block header or transaction, or any manner of things that can be done when the "virtual" currency still has to traverse very real public infrastructure. Will it stop it completely? No - but put enough chicanes in the way and the incentive to use it will drop below critical mass required for it to achieve its actual long term goal, whi…

All of those are easily fixable in wallet software. Can't stop the signal.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#163

Post by throwaway1777 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #142
novok wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t implemented as a proof of work currency, but as a small distributed database. At its core it’s a multicurrency fiat currency fund that you can trade ownership units of, like an ETF. But internationally on no specific stock exchange. And when you buy units of it, the currency you put into it gets added to the fund, so it isnt dilutive. It’s basically creating a global currency out of the worlds fiat currenci…

The premise is alright until you realize that Facebook and friends couldn't possibly have enough capital to be a "bank of last resort", and financial crises without one have historically just spun out of control and wrecked economies for extended periods of time.

The point is there doesn’t need to be a bank of last resort with libra.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#164

Post by bobthepanda »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #163
bobthepanda wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise is alright until you realize that Facebook and friends couldn't possibly have enough capital to be a "bank of last resort", and financial crises without one have historically just spun out of control and wrecked economies for extended periods of time.

The point is there doesn’t need to be a bank of last resort with libra.

What about it indicates that?

Libra is backed by a basket of currencies or investments designed to spread risk around, which is a great idea unless a huge chunk goes belly up at the same time. And then what? We repeat the subprime mortgage crisis, where people also thought that there would never be mass defaults across the system at the same time?

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#165

Post by theamk »

xabotage wrote: post #89
CodiePetersen wrote: post #54

I'm actually glad it's dead/dying. It was always going to be controlled by an elite group who answered to no one but themselves. They had the ability to monitor all of your transactions and if they didn't like you they could roll back or block your transactions. People keep saying oh this is proof crypto can't ever work because government. This was never a true crypto currency. It was just a private ledger tracking w…

>They had the ability to monitor all of your transactions and if they didn't like you they could roll back or block your transactions. Unlike, what, my established credit card company which still blocks me randomly when I'm traveling overseas even when I explicitly call their 800 hotline, sit on hold for 30 minutes, and tell some unempathetic worker "I'm overseas, don't block me"? Yes, thank goodness libra is dying,…

Wait, are you proposing that we go from "call their 800 hotline, sit on hold for 30 minutes," to "your account has been permanently disabled for violating Facebook’s Terms. We will not reactivate it for any reason. This will be our last email regarding your account."[0] ?

This does not make sense. Looks like even your credit card is vastly more trustworthy than Facebook!

[0] http://www.optimizationtoday.com/what-i-learned-when-faceboo...

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#167

Post by throwaway1777 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #164
throwaway1777 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there doesn’t need to be a bank of last resort with libra.

What about it indicates that? Libra is backed by a basket of currencies or investments designed to spread risk around, which is a great idea unless a huge chunk goes belly up at the same time. And then what? We repeat the subprime mortgage crisis, where people also thought that there would never be mass defaults across the system at the same time?

Libra is not a bank, it’s a currency that’s pegged to other currencies. The asset backing is only because the initial value has to come from somewhere. It can’t default. It could decrease in value, but there’s no debt or counter party risk.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#168

Post by anonimouse5t43w »

capocannoniere wrote: post #97

I'd argue the outcome of this will be that Facebook will launch their own payments infrastructure on top of WhatsApp. There was no need for crypto or a Libra association to begin with. According to the leaked Facebook all-hands audio, Facebook is already planning to launch payments in Mexico by end of 2019 ( https://qz.com/1719731/zuckerberg-confirms-facebook-payment-... ). I wouldn't be surprised if this goes extrem…

Just look at what Wechat is currently doing and you can get an idea of what Facebook will be doing in the future.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#169

Post by bobbyd3 »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #126
lacker wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that I think the Libra product is going to be fantastic per se. I just think that competition will force all the companies to make their products better. I don't want the government to prevent companies from making products, I want to be able to choose of my own free will whether it's a good product or not.

My difficulty is, at heart, I don't want my tokens of exchange to be a product at all. I want the guarantee of universality that comes with money. Accessible to rich and poor alike, good credit or bad. Anything that tries to edge that out via the market is inherently a bad thing. Ultimately for all except stockholders. A central bank backed cryptocurrency with all the traits of universality and legal tender may be a…

^ this

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#170

Post by cjbest »

john_moscow wrote: post #149
lacker wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems silly to say there is no audience because it’s already possible to transfer money. Facebook is all about cloning an existing product and making it easy for millions of people use it by putting it in an app they already use for an hour every day. I think if they are permitted to launch, they will get a lot of people to use it.

I am a happy customer of both a bank and a grocery store. If one day the grocery store decides to also open a bank, I won't suddenly move my accounts there just because I go to the grocery store every week. That's why the grocery stores trying to offer credit cards usually have some loyalty programs (e.g. points/discounts for in-store purchases). And BTW, they typically just partner with existing banks and not try to…

Interestingly the grocery store bank thing more or less happened in Ontario and it’s quite good/popular: https://www.pcfinancial.ca/en
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