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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#141

Post by jpwgarrison »

snotrockets wrote: post #128
john_moscow wrote: post #39

Call me cynical, but the whole idea of Libra would be disruptive to the existing international payment businesses, such as the ones that just exited. So the only reason for them to join in the first place would be to basically "know your enemy" - make certain you get the first-person intel on the project's vitals and to know what to expect. Now that a couple of governments made it clear that there would be roadblocks…

And here I thought the whole idea of Libra is to take marketshare from WeChat & M-Pesa.

Put more simply, it is about increasing total addressable market.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#142

Post by bobthepanda »

novok wrote: post #127
jtms wrote: post #65

There was absolutely no reason for this to project to exist. The only feature of digital currencies that make some of them interesting is that they are fully distributed and based on absolutely zero trust of other users on the network. What Facebook was trying to do here was take something that could be implemented in a standard centralized database, stick some marketing on it, and try to ride a hype wave that has si…

It wasn’t implemented as a proof of work currency, but as a small distributed database. At its core it’s a multicurrency fiat currency fund that you can trade ownership units of, like an ETF. But internationally on no specific stock exchange. And when you buy units of it, the currency you put into it gets added to the fund, so it isnt dilutive. It’s basically creating a global currency out of the worlds fiat currenci…

The premise is alright until you realize that Facebook and friends couldn't possibly have enough capital to be a "bank of last resort", and financial crises without one have historically just spun out of control and wrecked economies for extended periods of time.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#143

Post by lyqwyd »

john_moscow wrote: post #129
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

What do you consider non-trivial?

I transfer money to Africa on a regular basis, and I don’t have these same issues other than the difference between published exchange rate and realized, which is about 1-1.5%. Transfer fees are minimal.

I transfer about $3,000 per month, but no I could go up to at least $10K without issue. Occasionally it can have a bit of a delay, but normally it closes in less than a minute, and I get email and text updates on the status, no calls needed.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#144

Post by machawinka »

osrec wrote: post #68
jtms wrote: post #65

There was absolutely no reason for this to project to exist. The only feature of digital currencies that make some of them interesting is that they are fully distributed and based on absolutely zero trust of other users on the network. What Facebook was trying to do here was take something that could be implemented in a standard centralized database, stick some marketing on it, and try to ride a hype wave that has si…

Absolutely. My definition of a decentralised system is not one that's controlled by a handful of entities...

It is descentralized across corporations. Pretty much a cartel.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#145

Post by lacker »

john_moscow wrote: post #129
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

It seems silly to say there is no audience because it’s already possible to transfer money. Facebook is all about cloning an existing product and making it easy for millions of people use it by putting it in an app they already use for an hour every day. I think if they are permitted to launch, they will get a lot of people to use it.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#146

Post by wolfgke »

raister wrote: post #25
jasoncartwright wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is true, then it was true when they signed up initially. What changed?

Because raw ideas seem good, then when people ponder it may turn out to be bad ones... Have you ever heard of the Solar Powered Highway in France?

I have quite some difficulties with the mentality of first very publicly announcing that you will join the project, then very soon realizing that it might be a bad idea, and then (also quite publicly) exiting the project.

Why not evaluate this beforehand before very publicly announcing that you join the (Libra) project?!

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#147

Post by wolfgke »

dana321 wrote: post #72

Isn't it kind of pointless anyway: a large corporation with vast resources creating a cryptocurrency, why don't they just make their own bank?

> Isn't it kind of pointless anyway: a large corporation with vast resources creating a cryptocurrency, why don't they just make their own bank?

Because Facebook senses an opportunity that in the long-term they could make a lot more money than if they founded a bank.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#148

Post by NeedMoreTea »

BubRoss wrote: post #136
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a Facebook currency help here?

The comment I replied to said cryptocurrency.

Libra is a cryptocurrency from Facebook, and intended as a token of exchange is also a currency. (Did that really need spelling out?) Thus the cryptocurrency Libra is no help at all shielding you from the permission of large corporations.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#149

Post by john_moscow »

lacker wrote: post #145
john_moscow wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

It seems silly to say there is no audience because it’s already possible to transfer money. Facebook is all about cloning an existing product and making it easy for millions of people use it by putting it in an app they already use for an hour every day. I think if they are permitted to launch, they will get a lot of people to use it.

I am a happy customer of both a bank and a grocery store. If one day the grocery store decides to also open a bank, I won't suddenly move my accounts there just because I go to the grocery store every week. That's why the grocery stores trying to offer credit cards usually have some loyalty programs (e.g. points/discounts for in-store purchases). And BTW, they typically just partner with existing banks and not try to butt into a heavily regulated market with no previous experience.

And if I never needed to have a bank account before, just being able to open it while paying for my food won't suddenly create the need for it.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#150

Post by jeromebaek »

hinkley wrote: post #79
osrec wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. My definition of a decentralised system is not one that's controlled by a handful of entities...

And yet, a lot of people have been confused into thinking things like The Cloud are decentralized. I’m not sure how this got broken, but a few powerful companies seem to be running with it.

Sorry, who in their right mind thinks the Cloud is decentralized? It is literally the opposite.
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