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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

forbes.com

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#191

Post by ggreer »

dorfsmay wrote: post #187
busterarm wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an x270 that I consider to be the best road-warrior laptop they ever made. I was sad when they got rid of the dual battery in the x280.

I needed to upgrade my x220. The newer X series is almost as big as the T series, and is really limited in terms of memory. I ended up getting a T480 which is nice at home, but too big on the road. I looked really hard at System76, but I need a trackpoint. I also looked at the x210, and at the time I thought that was too much work, I'm starting to think it might be worth it.

My biggest issue with the x210 is that it's hard to find decent batteries. All the 3rd party batteries I've bought have degraded to <50% of their design capacity within 6 months. I need to buy some decent 18650 cells and replace the low quality ones in the aftermarket batteries.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#192

Post by rhizome »

jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

OT, but I would love a tenkeyless keyboard option for the larger models.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#193

Post by beatgammit »

tadzik_ wrote: post #138
jdright wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why no AMD CPUs? I just don't buy anything Intel and I'm for some time looking at System76, but each time I go build a setup I remember why I gave up the last time around. Also, with the price difference between the two it would be a more interesting hardware using this difference to acquire more RAM.

Can't speak for System76, but I got the AMD Thinkpad (A485), and I'm honestly disappointed as hell and now I understand why you don't see the Ryzens on laptops too much. The power management is an absolute joke (the thing has two batteries and barely lasts 2 hours total), suspend works maybe 20% of the time, and the OS actually freezes on it every now and then leaving no trace in syslog. I'd much rather get an Intel…

I have an E495 (would have gotten the T495 if it didn't have soldered RAM and/or if it still offered a second battery), and it does okay. I think I get 3-5 hours battery (haven't measured it), and I'm considering getting an external battery pack before I need the extra battery life.

The E495 uses a newer rev of their chips and is completely usable (not as good as Intel) despite still not being on 7nm. I expect the next gen to be very competitive with Intel.

That being said, I'm really disappointed at the direction Lenovo is going by trying to make everything thin. I want a powerful laptop (compiling, light gaming) and I'm fine with some extra thickness, but I want don't want anything bigger than 14". If I want thin, I can go for the X models or the T...s models, but for some reason, the regular T line is getting thinner as well, and losing a lot of the reasons I have for getting them. I ended up with the E series because I don't want soldered RAM and I'm not paying a premium for a laptop that has much of what I want removed.

If System76 can deliver a decent Ryzen laptop (want those cores) with a good keyboard and open firmware, I'll pay. I'm happy with it being thick, provided it's not too wide (needs to fit in my bag). But all I see from System76 is mediocre laptops with open source bits, and that's just not my cup of tea.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#194

Post by Iv »

jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

Just wanted to give you some love. It must be really harsh for morale dealing with the OSS crowd who will always consider you don't do enough without recognizing that you are helping building a road where none existed before.

Kudos to you!

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#195

Post by snagglegaggle »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #173
snagglegaggle wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any "open" 802.11ac chipsets? A quick search didn't find any.

No, closest thing is the mediatek chip-sets that at least dont enforce wifi parameters via firmware (fullmac vs softmac).

Do you have any examples of useful devices?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#196

Post by AtlasBarfed »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #157
calvinmorrison wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kb9, For embedded and laptop devices, are there power devices or other options for truly free firmware? The desktop price point on current boxes are still high, do you foresee those prices dropping in the future? Will newer POWER architectures create a large workload for you or is it more simple? - cal

Laptop is a large problem still -- mainly due to GPUs. With desktop, we don't have to deal with the issues associated with a soldered-down non-free GPU; the mainboard works blob-free if desired but the user already expects to install a discrete GPU if they need one. With laptops, the GPU has to be integrated, and there are no GPUs in production today that don't require signed firmware (this is due to the DRM contract…

Are ISAs patented or copyrighted?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#197

Post by vasili111 »

jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

Any plans to make gpu passthrough officially supported for your laptops?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#198

Post by jakeogh »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #145
jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

I have one. How are you claiming open source firmware when your hardware requires signed, closed source binaries to even begin to boot? I refer specifically to the Intel Management Engine, which incidentally is why we gave up on x86 many years ago. How did you solve the GPU closed, signed firmware problem for discrete GPUs? How about the WiFi card firmware? I understand your decision to try to keep compatibility with…

I want a laptop where the all of the design files are open source. It would be worth a serious premium in addition to the premium I would pay for the open POWER system. The few we have now are maxed out at 4GB. Someone is going to do it...

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#199

Post by generatorguy »

madez wrote: post #185
throwaway2048 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, closest thing is the mediatek chip-sets that at least dont enforce wifi parameters via firmware (fullmac vs softmac).

Things are getting worse, not better, on many fronts when it comes to user freedom and control over their devices. Apparently many responsible engineers in this area lack the ethical consideration of their work. The more I see this, the more I worry about bridges, airplanes, and every other piece of technology that is developed by engineers that may or may not have ethical principles.

Good thing the people building bridges and airplanes are Professional Engineers and everyone can call themselves anything they want except for P. Eng.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#200

Post by tpearson-raptor »

Iv wrote: post #194
jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

Just wanted to give you some love. It must be really harsh for morale dealing with the OSS crowd who will always consider you don't do enough without recognizing that you are helping building a road where none existed before. Kudos to you!

Honest question: why do you consider System76 to be building new roads by using locked hardware and offering partial open source firmware for it? Wouldn't the new roads kudos be more appropriately given to all of the folks that made real open hardware happen (RISC-V, OpenPOWER, etc.) years before this partly-open-source system announcement went out?

In my mind the RISC-V folks especially were real trailblazers in this space -- they took massive risks when no one, and I mean no one, was doing open source CPUs beyond soft cores. IBM focused more on open firmware, then eventually opened their ISA, but x86 vendors have had no such forward vision in their history -- the x86 vendors have followed in this space, not led, for well over a decade, and indeed both sides of the x86 duopoly (Intel and AMD) are both separately on record as having stated their goal is to take control away from the machine owner in whatever manner they need to in order to fulfill their DRM contracts.

Even with this laptop announcement, if I'm honest, more following is being demonstrated -- the coreboot user community had open source firmware ARM laptops (Chromebooks) available quite a long time ago, why weren't those hailed as building new roads when they appeared? Does anyone really think we would have reached a point where an x86 vendor would be trying to advertise even partly open source firmware without the pioneering efforts of the competing, truly open architectures?

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