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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#171

Post by kop316 »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #157
calvinmorrison wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kb9, For embedded and laptop devices, are there power devices or other options for truly free firmware? The desktop price point on current boxes are still high, do you foresee those prices dropping in the future? Will newer POWER architectures create a large workload for you or is it more simple? - cal

Laptop is a large problem still -- mainly due to GPUs. With desktop, we don't have to deal with the issues associated with a soldered-down non-free GPU; the mainboard works blob-free if desired but the user already expects to install a discrete GPU if they need one. With laptops, the GPU has to be integrated, and there are no GPUs in production today that don't require signed firmware (this is due to the DRM contract…

If you don't mind me asking, do you use a laptop for work/personally? And if you do, what do you use?

I've been looking for one and I have the same concerns you do, and right now the only thing I realistically see if I want completely open is a thinkpad x200/t400 flashed with libreboot.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#172

Post by tpearson-raptor »

kop316 wrote: post #171
tpearson-raptor wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop is a large problem still -- mainly due to GPUs. With desktop, we don't have to deal with the issues associated with a soldered-down non-free GPU; the mainboard works blob-free if desired but the user already expects to install a discrete GPU if they need one. With laptops, the GPU has to be integrated, and there are no GPUs in production today that don't require signed firmware (this is due to the DRM contract…

If you don't mind me asking, do you use a laptop for work/personally? And if you do, what do you use? I've been looking for one and I have the same concerns you do, and right now the only thing I realistically see if I want completely open is a thinkpad x200/t400 flashed with libreboot.

I've actually given up on using laptops for now. I still have an old x201 and t400 but they don't get out much due to the Intel silicon vulnerabilities.

Nothing I do with secure data hard-requires that level of portability, and for insecure (tracked, DRMed, closed + signed firmware) mobile use a Lineage smartphone is good enough for what I do. A laptop with closed / signed firmware simply doesn't gain me anything worth having over the phone.

My personal desktop is a Blackbird. The couple of old x86 apps I can't easily ditch (because they are open source but need MVC APIs and I'm too lazy to write the shim layer) I just forward X over SSH to an old corebooted Opteron box.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#173

Post by throwaway2048 »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #126
throwaway2048 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This used to be true, but since Qualcomm bought them out, they have done a complete 180 and basically reverted to totally closed designs (closed firmware, closed drivers, no spec sheet). The 9xxx chip-sets (which are only 802.11n) are the last ones designed before Qualcomm took over, the 10xxx chip-sets (802.11AC+) are closed and completely locked down, you cant even change your MAC address its all stuffed into a gia…

Are there any "open" 802.11ac chipsets? A quick search didn't find any.

No, closest thing is the mediatek chip-sets that at least dont enforce wifi parameters via firmware (fullmac vs softmac).

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#174

Post by nerdponx »

dorfsmay wrote: post #135
jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

Are you familiar with the ThinkPad x210? Have you thought of addressing the market of people wanting a small (12 to 13 inch), robuste, laptops with trackpoint and no arbitrary memory limitation? Lenovo has abandoned that market, and there's enough demand for people to create and sell kits for it. Could System 76 fill that gap?

This. I just want a small light laptop with a good keyboard that wasn't made in the 00s.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#175

Post by madez »

jdright wrote: post #36
jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

Why no AMD CPUs? I just don't buy anything Intel and I'm for some time looking at System76, but each time I go build a setup I remember why I gave up the last time around. Also, with the price difference between the two it would be a more interesting hardware using this difference to acquire more RAM.

How do you avoid the Intel chips in networking? Intel has often-used Ethernet and WiFi chips.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#176

Post by kop316 »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #172
kop316 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, do you use a laptop for work/personally? And if you do, what do you use? I've been looking for one and I have the same concerns you do, and right now the only thing I realistically see if I want completely open is a thinkpad x200/t400 flashed with libreboot.

I've actually given up on using laptops for now. I still have an old x201 and t400 but they don't get out much due to the Intel silicon vulnerabilities. Nothing I do with secure data hard-requires that level of portability, and for insecure (tracked, DRMed, closed + signed firmware) mobile use a Lineage smartphone is good enough for what I do. A laptop with closed / signed firmware simply doesn't gain me anything wor…

Thanks for the thoughtful (and quick) response! That was sadly what I was afraid of. Normally I wouldn't bother but I'm going back to school, and sadly the Novena I have just isn't supported anymore (I tried updating u-boot/kernel myself for a while, ended up not being worth the hassle).

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#177

Post by tpearson-raptor »

kop316 wrote: post #176
tpearson-raptor wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually given up on using laptops for now. I still have an old x201 and t400 but they don't get out much due to the Intel silicon vulnerabilities. Nothing I do with secure data hard-requires that level of portability, and for insecure (tracked, DRMed, closed + signed firmware) mobile use a Lineage smartphone is good enough for what I do. A laptop with closed / signed firmware simply doesn't gain me anything wor…

Thanks for the thoughtful (and quick) response! That was sadly what I was afraid of. Normally I wouldn't bother but I'm going back to school, and sadly the Novena I have just isn't supported anymore (I tried updating u-boot/kernel myself for a while, ended up not being worth the hassle).

My best recommendation might be a bit odd, but here goes...

Can you put a POWER "base station" of sorts in your dorm / apartment and use a low power secure terminal, like a corebooted C201, to access it over an encrypted link?

I've done something like this when I had to travel last -- was able to maintain a stable link back to one of my POWER machines so the lack of local computing power on the laptop didn't matter. Really hate that Chromebook touchpad though. ;)

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#178

Post by lonelappde »

pram wrote: post #66
albertzeyer wrote: post #56

Recently there was a discussion about Huawei MateBook X Pro, which also seems to be a great Linux notebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21170765 In that discussion, several other good Linux notebooks were also discussed, including System 76. But it was reported there that the quality is quite bad: > but the quality is reportedly bad (flaky hardware, too-fast power drain, reflash bios to toggle discrete graph…

They don't make the hardware, all their laptops are rebadges of Clevo/Sager https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP8454.html

Isn't sager more like an alternative to system76, also a rebadged clevo?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#179

Post by busterarm »

voldacar wrote: post #166
busterarm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving HT enabled in 2019. You're bold. :)

Not a single one of those exploits has ever been seen in the wild.

We don't have to lock our doors, this is a safe community.

Security isn't even the only good reason to disable HT.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#180

Post by lonelappde »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #143
m463 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a purism laptop years ago, and it had zero blobs. It also had really really standard hardware: no special screws to open the case, standard memory, m.2 and hard drive, a standard power supply with a barrel jack, etc. I believe system76 was less expensive but had blobs. Unsure about the hardware details.

Oh? Zero blobs, so no ME or PSP? No FSP or AGESA? No EC firmware or integrated GPU firmware? Sorry, I call BS on that unless it was a long time ago, as in Core 2 Duo era.

You seem to know and care a lot about this, but your writing style is really off-putting to less informed users. Consider adjusting your approach to educating people about how open source low level software works and doesn't work.
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