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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the risk that the US President might unilaterally ban American corporations from doing any business with you. Through secondary sanctions, that ban will extend to corporations around the world. The US has arbitrarily cut off entire countries from the world market, including Iran and Venezuela, and it has cut off individual corporations as well, including Huawei and ZTE. Everyone here seems to be up in ar…

No, I don't think there's any risk to Americans or American corporations that the president will unilaterally ban American corporations from doing business with me, an American There is a very real risk to me, an American, that the products or services sold to me by an American corporation will be degraded or changed at the request of the CCP in exchange for that corporations continued access to the Chinese market Do…

But they may very well ban you from doing business with a foreign company, for completely arbitrary and opaque reasons. You may be suddenly told that you have to break off relations with your largest customer, or a product you own may suddenly lose important functionality.

Millions of Europeans are now affected by the American Huawei ban, which risks degrading the phones that they bought. This is far more serious than any impact China's actions with regards to the NBA, Apple, etc. have had. How anyone can say that an NBA exec having to retract a tweet is more serious than Huawei's CFO being imprisoned and the company cut off from virtually all their international suppliers is beyond me.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can of course side load apps more easily on Android, but it isn’t super easy. I guess that matters less when people are motivated. But... if this statement were true in spirit as well then why don’t we see google seizing this PR opportunity and making statements about the superiority of their App Store’s more liberal model? Why do we instead see Google quietly removing HK-protest related apps too? I guess the…

I remember when Google's motto was "Don't be evil". Sad to see these companies teaming up with authoritarian dictatorships actively involved in keeping ethnic groups in concentration camps and harvesting the organs of political prisoners.

How did you just turn this against Google? Google still has kept the app in the android app store. It's Apple that removed it at the first sign of pressure from China because Apple has no spine.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#824
post #728

This is why Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android. If I have a good reason, I can toggle a setting and install APKs built by anyone. If I have a good reason, I can wipe my phone and unlock the bootloader to literally replace and de-Google the entire OS. When I buy a phone, it's a hardware product I'm buying. Just like when you buy a PC/laptop, what you run on it is your business, not the manufacturer…

> When I buy a phone, it's a hardware product I'm buying. Not to me.

What does that even mean? Can you elaborate at all?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can Android kick out APKs that are side-loaded? And if they can, what stops a user from swizzling identifiers for the APK and reinstalling it?

The problem with Android is its mostly closed nature, so there are multiple places where malicious software could be placed by design, system apps and to a greater degree device drivers being the first obvious choice. By malicious I mean software that limits or acts against the user choices, not necessarily behaving like a virus.

Not sure what point you are making. Android isn't closed, the entire os is open source. If anything is closed it is iOS.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#826

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

To be fair, Apple users consider it a benefit to not have control over their phones. I know right? It's crazy people pay more money for less. I'm not sure how to teach Apple users, they seem to find an excuse for every anti-consumer thing they do.

It is a cognitive difference between apple user and other users. Less is more. Control is not always a good thing. Think about it very carefully.

There is nothing on this world, nothing, is good anytime anywhere to anyone.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#827
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> right now giving up some of their freedom looks like a good deal to them. Getting that freedom back once the deal sours will be very hard, and get much harder each year as surveillance and repression grow.

As much as this seems like a foreign concept to westerners, most Chinese citizens (outside of the European provinces) simply do not care about it the way westerners do. To GP's point, their lives have and continue to improve, with the fastest growing middle class this decade. And before you project western ideals on China and start doomsaying about their impending economic collapse, understand that people have been s…

Yeah, that's human nature. A lot of people were fairly satisfied even behind the Iron Curtain for a time before the economic dysfunction became too apparent.

Yet even then as now, we have every right to project and even attempt to impose these "western" ideals of individual human rights on systems that try to deny them from any one individual.

The only "western" thing about them is that the particular framework of discourse we currently use to describe these values was born here. Yet those values are, or should be, universal. I refuse to take any bullshit claiming otherwise from any collectivist ideology, with or without Chinese characteristics. They have no legitimacy in overriding the rights of an individual based on any braindead ideology or concept of an essence of a society or culture, historical dialectics or whatever.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#828
post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as this seems like a foreign concept to westerners, most Chinese citizens (outside of the European provinces) simply do not care about it the way westerners do. To GP's point, their lives have and continue to improve, with the fastest growing middle class this decade. And before you project western ideals on China and start doomsaying about their impending economic collapse, understand that people have been s…

I was not aware the desire for freedom (of speech, and otherwise) was such a uniquely Western ideal. And it's easy not to care about it - until its absence is used against you. At that point, it changes from an ideal, to a very pragmatic matter (ask the Uyghurs or Tibetans). But by then it's too late.

The history of freedom of speech is rooted in western philosophy, right down to it's origins in Greek and English cultures.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all that relevant, but with the new BootROM exploit you may be able to do this at some point.

I expect that won't happen. Maybe as a proof of concept, but not as something anyone would ever want to use daily. Documentation on iPhone hardware is basically nonexistent. Someone would need to reverse engineer it all and write drivers from scratch.

It’s happened before, though of course it’d be much harder today. Interestingly, it seems like Apple keeps around a Linux devicetree for their processors, so it’s certainly not impossible…

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#830

This is why Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android. If I have a good reason, I can toggle a setting and install APKs built by anyone. If I have a good reason, I can wipe my phone and unlock the bootloader to literally replace and de-Google the entire OS. When I buy a phone, it's a hardware product I'm buying. Just like when you buy a PC/laptop, what you run on it is your business, not the manufacturer…

That's funny: "Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android" You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware[0], do you? Or malware stealing users' bank credentials[1]? Heck, there are people whose brand new phone comes pre-loaded with malware[2]. Oh, this one was just posted five hours ago -- applications on the Google Play store load with trojans and spyware[3]. I can keep going, but the…

What an incredibly weak argument. Android absolutely destroys iOS in market share, it's not even a comparison. That's why it's targeted by malware writers. That doesn't mean it's any less secure than iOS. You have to try very hard to infect your phone.

I'd pick being able to run whatever I want over Apples choice of apps any day.

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