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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#691

Post by AlexandrB »

api wrote: post #454
journalctl wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how this works. Apple is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, and saying “just don’t spend money there” is a bit reductionist and trivializes the problem of corporations with more power than nation-states. You need to fight fire with fire: governments of the world (especially the US government) need to create laws that restrict and punish this kind of behavior. Otherwise, I sincerely doubt Apple’s…

> trivializes the problem of corporations with more power than nation-states. But they don't have more power than nation states. Last I checked nation states had guns , and guns are still very much the real source of all power in this world. Apple has a lot of money. That makes them economically dependent on a larger surface area of not only nation states but other corporations. In a way it gives them less power. A m…

> In terms of practical freedom of speech and political/social action, being rich outside the protection of the state is probably the least powerful position you can be in.

The wealthy can hire armies of lobbyists, lawyers, and in some countries mercenaries. A regular old Joe can say anything, sure, but if they're in the wrong country when they do they might end up in prison or just disappear. If you're rich and "economically dependent" the worst that generally happens is your ROI goes down. The horror!

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#692

Post by shpongled »

dan-robertson wrote: post #671
parliament32 wrote: post #597

This is why Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android. If I have a good reason, I can toggle a setting and install APKs built by anyone. If I have a good reason, I can wipe my phone and unlock the bootloader to literally replace and de-Google the entire OS. When I buy a phone, it's a hardware product I'm buying. Just like when you buy a PC/laptop, what you run on it is your business, not the manufacturer…

So you can of course side load apps more easily on Android, but it isn’t super easy. I guess that matters less when people are motivated. But... if this statement were true in spirit as well then why don’t we see google seizing this PR opportunity and making statements about the superiority of their App Store’s more liberal model? Why do we instead see Google quietly removing HK-protest related apps too? I guess the…

I remember when Google's motto was "Don't be evil".

Sad to see these companies teaming up with authoritarian dictatorships actively involved in keeping ethnic groups in concentration camps and harvesting the organs of political prisoners.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#693

Post by [deleted] »

simonh wrote: post #118
austhrow743 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is good. By being better for privacy than the worlds largest advertising company/consumer spy agency, Apple announced its intent to be for all that is good in the world. That it's a shining beacon of morality. Protector of Italian virginity. China is bad. By capitulating to them after having declared themselves the enforcer of all that is good and holy, Apple has thus committed hypocrisy.

Apple has simply said it will pursue user privacy and security to the limits of what the law will allow. That is all.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#695

Post by joeyprr »

s_dev wrote: post #324
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

>And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. Make the app a Web App and visit it in Safari. Apple has banned it being notarized and distributed from their App Store but iPhones still have access to the conventional web which Apple has no control over.

https://hkmap.live

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#696

Post by lern_too_spel »

mehhh wrote: post #685
jethro_tell wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like this app is also ephemeral? you just uninstall it after they've ripped all your data. So as usual you should cross borders with an empty phone, no?

The app has root, it can easily break out of the APK and ensure reinstallation just like other Android malware does. Factory resetting might work if the system partition is not modified, but that covers only a portion of Android devices.

The app does not have root. It just requests a lot of permissions.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#697

Post by lern_too_spel »

mehhh wrote: post #609
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning sideloading forced China to use iOS exploits, which are ephemeral and not consistently effective. But that's just it, China found their own way in! I don't think it's obvious which method is less effective. iPhones were compromised until reboot, and became reinfected as soon as the user next visited the malicious website—which a government can compel people to do frequently. That's still better than Android…

There is a huge practical difference between being temporarily infected and permanently having malware embedded in your phone. The former is fixable with a software uodate from a company that actively looks to secure your phone, while in the latter case the device is hopelessly compromised. I love sideloading, but if I were a target of interest then iOS is the only reasonable choice.

They would just not allow you in if you don't hand over your contacts. Similarly, if I have an Android phone, they won't be able to install the app without my permission. At that point, they can not allow me in.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#698

Post by snagglegaggle »

whoevercares wrote: post #348
snagglegaggle wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are you trying to say China is more powerful than the US? Why give in to appeasement? I don't really care if their feelings are hurt.

Hmm maybe my written English caused some confusion, why you interpret it like that? Are you saying the more powerful ones don’t have to give in anything? In current world I don’t think such landslide advantage still exists I’m saying negotiations and better strategy are needed. Ignoring feelings and demands from millions of people won’t work beyond keyboard, virtual or physical

Realize that historically we have been doing what you suggest. The West invested heavily in China hoping the increased standard of living would liberalize the country. It is clear that has not worked. It looks like the problem may become worse, and if it does, then war becomes more likely, not less, the only alternative being the West becoming subservient to China.

Taking a strong stance now and cutting off China from the market is likely one of the better options if the CCP won't capitulate. They have high tech manufacturing and internal demand but likely can't support their economy at its current level with only an inward focus.

Negotiations and strategy have been going on for 50 or so years. There are certain items the Chinese government does not want to budge on that are incompatible with a free market.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#699

Post by mikenew »

leppr wrote: post #499
gear54rus wrote: post #450

It would be good to remember this moment next time some of their marketing bullshit about privacy will surface again. Their word extends no further than the next paycheck. And people still fall for it.

Privacy and freedom don't necessarily intersect. You could have a lot of privacy but no freedom in a windowless prison cell, or a lot of freedom but no privacy being homeless in the street. (not that Apple's privacy spiel ever really meant anything as a company selling internet-connected black boxes)

You're right, but the dialogue should change from "Apple respects your privacy" to "Yeah maybe Apple respects your privacy but they don't respect your freedom".

Also they host all their Chinese iCloud data on Chinese servers now. So the "privacy" marketing is pretty bullshit anyway. At best it should be "Apple respects the privacy of some of it's users at the current time, probably".

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#700

Post by nbrempel »

kypro wrote: post #145
newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

Apple only cares about privacy because it's a threat to Google and Facebook's business model. They don't care about privacy, they only care about "caring about privacy" when it is good for their business.

This is true. But increasing revenue is the only way a corporation can "care" about anything within the current framework.

The framework needs to change. It's possible for the value of a company to be judged on more than just revenues.

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