What do you expect Apple to do ? Pull out of China ?
Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
571–580 of 931 posts
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#572Ben Thompson of Stratechery talks about this a lot. Apple always says they want to own the most important pieces of their products but then Tim Cook when he was COO made the decision to be completely beholden to China for their manufacturing. I hope that Apple is seriously trying to diversify their supply chain out of China. It can be done at scale - Samsung moved all of their manufacturing out of Chins.
Not quite all of it, just the mobile manufacturing with a statement about losing local market share. They still have 2 semiconductor plants in China[0].
[0] https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/about-us/location/manu...
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
edit: I removed this comment. I travel in China. (HN doesnt' apparently allow me to "delete" it, so I apologize for the edit.)
The reason is because for the vast majority of Chinese, they are as likely to end up in a re-education camp as an American is to end up at a Chicago black site prison.
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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
What interest would Apple have in banning GPL-licensed web apps?
Of that I am not certain, but Apple has banned VLC and many other apps, and continues to ban any GPL code from the app store: https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
I've used VLC on Apple products (phone, tablet, laptop) for years. I can't remember a time it wasn't available. Do you mean some VLC other than the video/media playing application?
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#575Lesson learned: don't use apple phones. Android lets you install APKs from any source.
China forces the Uighurs and anyone who visits their region (Xinjiang) to install malware on their Android: https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/294389-china-is-installin... Banning sideloading forced China to use iOS exploits, which are ephemeral and not consistently effective. Installing apps outside a repository (like on most Linux distros) is a dual edged sword, Apple and Google are poor stewards of their software…
> Banning sideloading forced China to use iOS exploits, which are ephemeral and not consistently effective.
But that's just it, China found their own way in! I don't think it's obvious which method is less effective. iPhones were compromised until reboot, and became reinfected as soon as the user next visited the malicious website—which a government can compel people to do frequently. That's still better than Android, but on Android, users knew they were being tracked. iOS users did not. (And of course, because iOS is locked down, it's harder to inspect your phone for signs it's compromised.)
If China hadn't found an exploit, do you think they would have given up? I think they would have required iOS users to carry dedicated trackers. Or just surveilled them more heavily.
Software restrictions don't impact the powerful, who have access to alternatives. They impact the average user, who has limited reserves of money, knowledge, and time.
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
From Wikipedia, > Manifest destiny was a widely held belief in the 19th century United States that its settlers were destined to expand across North America. The average American does not think that America should expand any further throughout the world, nor do they think that America has an irresistible duty to remake the world in its image. The theme of "the special virtues of the American people and their institut…
A thread on HN is a far cry from what a typical American thinks. America doesn’t need to take over other nations in the parochial sense. Rather the number of bases the US has established throughout the world accomplish manifest destiny in a modern fashion. No other country has or has ever had this level or scale of military deployment.
That has nothing to do with manifest destiny or even the average American. People are almost completely unaware of how many bases we have abroad, etc.
You are trying to paint a portrait of Americans in general that is flagrantly false.
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
In regards to your second paragraph, I feel a certain dissonance. We have a right to purchase the products we desire in a “free market” but at what point do we have the right to dictate how that producer chooses to design their product/platform ie. free installation of all applications. I think technologists have a too idealistic view of software as a basic right/liberating force without accepting companies should ha…
Are you against requiring seat belts and emissions controls in cars? Requiring homes to be built to code? Requiring utilities to provide water/power/gas to products made by other companies? Society regularly dictates how producers design their products. Technologists aren’t used to that because lawmakers have been slow to catch up, and many were intentionally hands off to foster the growth of the Internet, but the Wi…
Society regularly dictates how producers design their products, when it effects the immediate physical safety and well-being of their citizens. I think equating the Apple/HK issue to your other examples is a far stretch.
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#578Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…
Terrible analogy.
Even if you ignore the particular "special right" Hong Kong was arguing for (like, the right not to be extradited and disappeared for disagreeing with the government), it's still part of an existing system and series of agreements that are now being violated.
It's closer to if the UK tried to disband the Scottish parliament, because those damn Scots get special privileges and still protest and whine all day about secession, and then started moving troops in and brutalizing student protesters.
And, yes, everyone here would side with Scotland over the UK.
The PRC needs to get better propaganda.
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not how this works. Apple is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, and saying “just don’t spend money there” is a bit reductionist and trivializes the problem of corporations with more power than nation-states. You need to fight fire with fire: governments of the world (especially the US government) need to create laws that restrict and punish this kind of behavior. Otherwise, I sincerely doubt Apple’s…
> “just don’t spend money there” is a bit reductionist and trivializes the problem of corporations with more power than nation-states. You're totally mistaken if you believe that boycotts and the like aren't taken seriously by big companies, especially companies like Apple where the brand is more important than the product. Of course, it all depends on the size of the boycott, but it doesn't have to cost them million…
They are seeking new revenue in the Chinese market. To them they see a minuscule boycott in the US as the cost of gaining that market- net positive.
Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store
#580Damn. I’m a long-time Apple customer, and general fan of their dev platform, products, and services. In the back of my head, though, I’ve always had a thought:
There will probably come a time when Apple does something that crosses a line for me, something that doesn’t sit well with me, and causes me to disengage from the teat.
That moment appears to have finally arrived.