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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#311

Post by helpPeople »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #274

Ha! Just yesterday, everyone was talking about Apple as bastions of user privacy, etc., only for them to put profit over principles AGAIN in less than a week. It's just so shameful, but I guess that's capitalism working its magic and putting shareholder profits above all else. Not that Apple is any different from any other megacorp, but they sure do like to pretend like they have principles and care about users. Turn…

I'm not sure how Apple does this, but they will promote a negative feature as a positive thing.

Then their fan base, or astroturfers will share this idea whenever it comes up.

I wonder how we will look back at Apple as we better understand the human psychology.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#312

Post by mikeg8 »

jsjolen wrote: post #263
greatjack613 wrote: post #246

Honestly, I think we as in the United States have to think harder whether it is worth sacrificing our beliefs in freedom to gain a few $$$ (edit: A lot of $$$$$) from countries that don't provide their citizens with basic rights.

I disagree, I don't think we will ever do the right thing if the reward is big enough. I think the right way to go is to dismantle these unnecessary power structures that allow us to do the wrong choice and replace them with better ones. For example, Apple can only do this because they have the power to remove apps from their store (fine) and because we do not have the power to install apps which aren't from their st…

In regards to your second paragraph, I feel a certain dissonance. We have a right to purchase the products we desire in a “free market” but at what point do we have the right to dictate how that producer chooses to design their product/platform ie. free installation of all applications. I think technologists have a too idealistic view of software as a basic right/liberating force without accepting companies should have the right make decisions we strongly disagree with.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#314

Post by Wowfunhappy »

helpPeople wrote: post #305
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

To be fair, Apple users consider it a benefit to not have control over their phones. I know right? It's crazy people pay more money for less. I'm not sure how to teach Apple users, they seem to find an excuse for every anti-consumer thing they do.

It's because the locked-down nature of the iPhone is always made out to be an all-or-nothing policy. I legitimately don't understand why.

There are real benefits to having a curated, sandboxed, and audited selection of safe, quality software. Most users should never need to leave such an environment

What is necessary is an escape hatch—one that doesn't involve continual software reinstalls, or outright buying new hardware. It's fine to hide the option away in settings, where most users won't find it. But in extraordinary circumstances—like when your city is rioting against your government—people will help each other locate the switch, and download what they need to stay safe.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#315

Post by sho »

Here we go again...

Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this.

Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny.

Let's say one day some stupid little state that you don't care about and vaguely resent decides it wants to secede, wants all these rights others don't have, wants to be able to marry its cousins or make nukes at home or whatever. Alabama, say. Alabama wants to secede and they have some demonstrations. You think: "hahahaha no"

They keep demonstrating. The larger country talks about sending in the national guard or something. "Good, who do they think they are" you say.

Some alabamans post an app on the app store so they can avoid the national guard. It's linked to secessionist alabamans avoiding and even attacking the guard. Apple takes it down, then puts it back up, then takes it back down

"Good" you say.

This is how, conservatively, 90%+ of Chinese think. For them, HK is a tiny little past-glory city who thinks it's better than everyone else and is just causing trouble. They will eventually be brought into line, hopefully without too much bloodshed, just like Alabama. It's not really malicious. It's a province of China - it's misbehaving, and it will be brought into line in due course. Nothing more, nothing less.

I expect someone explained these truths to Apple, they saw the futility of taking some hopeless, simplistic, you-don't-even-live-here side, decided this was not the hill they wanted to die on, and pulled the app. I don't blame them.

I'd like to note that I do not support the Chinese Govt in any way and think the world would be a better place with an independent, democratic HK - a city I genuinely love. The Chinese have about as much chance agreeing with that as Americans would about an independent Alabama. Not going to happen.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#316

Post by eloff »

It won't bother Apple in the slightest, but I need a new laptop in the New Year, and after seeing this I can say it won't be a Mac.

I'm going to hold out for one of the 7nm AMD laptops when they're released. It will have to run Ubuntu, which is a bit sad, but at least I took a stand with my spending vote.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#319

Post by mantap »

3dfan wrote: post #281

Why is an app needed to display things on a map? Isn't that something a website can do just fine? Which brings up an interesting, more general topic: Why do we need apps at all? What is the fundamental difference to websites?

It really hard to get an app-like experience in iOS Safari. I don't know if they intentionally cripple it, but they certainly have no incentive to make it good.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#320

Post by automatoney »

UIZealot wrote: post #270

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

I'm not going to argue whether or not anything you've said is untrue, but you're leaving out some pretty important details which puts the protesters in a worse light.

First of all, one of the initial demands of the protest was to retract the characterization of one of the earlier protests as a riot. So even peaceful demonstrations have been cracked down on by the government. Even well-organized protests such as the one on July 1st (the anniversary of Hong Kong being handed over to China - there's usually protesting on this date) have met with strong resistance - early on the police were ordering people to disperse even though there was no violence at that time.

Secondly, late in July there were increasing attacks on protesters in which police stood by as people were attacked with poles. It seems that in this case, it was the police that were allowing violence and destruction, not the protesters.

Most importantly, the first bullet even fired in this whole situation was a police officer shooting an 18 year old high school student.

And regardless how the protesters are behaving, the argument that the only valid form of protest is peaceful protest is also historically inaccurate. Peaceful protest is definitely better when possible, but in many cases throughout history it simply has not been feasible.

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