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UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

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Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#91

Post by pleasecalllater »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #8
pleasecalllater wrote: post #2

I may be wrong... Isn't it that according to the law, the refugees are allowed to get the shelter in the first country they manage to get to? In this case it's Turkey, right?

That's only in the EU/Schengen laws and refugees can pay smugglers to get them to their desired country of choice through EU's porous borders(I drive a lot through Europe and border checks are only along the main highways, side roads are completely unguarded). Nothing against helping refugees but EU and NATO should reconsider any further cooperation with Turkey.

Thanks. I thought it was some kind of international law at the UN level, not just the EU one.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#92

Post by ohduran »

remarkEon wrote: post #29
pi-victor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because: a) Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. b) Largest army in Europe. c) Erdogan still has to restrain himself because he has treaties with NATO allies. Otherwise we might get a second unhinged Putin. That would cause a real headache for the EU that tries to stop immigrants from reaching its borders by millions.

>Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. If this were true why do ME refugees not want to stay there? >Largest army in Europe. Okay, but if they're more culturally similar to the ME, as your first point implies, than to e.g. Germany doesn't it become a little problematic for employing this army in NATO's current theater of operations? >Erdogan s…

> This is a great argument for why entangling alliances with people who aren't really your friends or are too culturally distant to even pretend as much are a terrible, awful idea. I believe we fought a World War because of this once.

People tend to forget that. Thanks for articulating it so well.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#93

Post by beefield »

ohduran wrote: post #84
beefield wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primary source would be taxes from the charter city citizens. I do not believe that the people moving in would be completely helpless. Then the possible remainning part of the funding, well, at the moment quite a few European countries are borrowing money with negative interest rates. So I assume they can borrow quite a pile of money before the interedt rates become unbearable. And to be clear, this is in my mind one…

Are you aware that the whole Brexit campaign revolved around the fact that giving money away to people abroad clashes with voters?

Loaning and investing is differwnt from giving. In my original post I tried to be clear that there are problems in this model. Unfortunately it looks to me like we need to solve them whether we like or not, so might be better to start solving them. Brexit did show that it is important how you sell things. And I am not a salesman...

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#94

Post by malandrew »

throwaway9980 wrote: post #34
utf985 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic or just extremely naive wishful thinking. Could you provide at least one example of a successful such program?

America.

Only because we limit numbers so assimilation is a necessity. The numbers of refugees to citizens is much higher in Europe, enough so that you get entire neighborhoods full of refugees instead of just refugees intermingled with the local population.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#95

Post by darkhorn »

zwieback wrote: post #21

How do Europeans feel about the Kurds these days? When I was growing up in Germany in the 70s and 80s they weren't super popular but I'm guessing with Turkey turning to fundamentalism the attitudes have changed?

A bit problematic https://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2019/02/08/civil-se...

https://www.dailysabah.com/investigations/2018/11/08/pkk-con...

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#96

Post by beefield »

malandrew wrote: post #81
beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

What happens once charter cities have a large enough population to influence elections and change direction of the country in objection of the citizens of that country? What I don’t understand is why we don’t treat these mass exodus of people from one country to another country like we do datacenter failovers and failbacks. Give people refuge, let them carry on productively with their life and the condition is that t…

> What happens once charter cities have a large enough population to influence elections and change direction of the country in objection of the citizens of that country?

Of course, citizenship in a charter city would not give citizenship/voting rights in the host country.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#98

Post by malandrew »

ardit33 wrote: post #32
zwieback wrote: post #21

How do Europeans feel about the Kurds these days? When I was growing up in Germany in the 70s and 80s they weren't super popular but I'm guessing with Turkey turning to fundamentalism the attitudes have changed?

Hard working people, family oriented, mostly (but not all) muslim, they tend to be moderate about religion.... especially compared with the craziness that goes around them.... They got the short stick of the dividing of the area, and their lands were used as a 'loot' to divy up by the great powers... They ended up as a nation without a country. They have faced great persecution over times, even mass gassing (in Iraq…

You can really be a nation without a country. Once you lose your country, your only option is to try and become the adoptee of some other nation.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#99

Post by loceng »

yalph wrote: post #90
loceng wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand it is bad actors, along with industrial complexes, leading to regulatory capture and bad policy - corruption - regardless of the country's name? It logically makes sense that the US having the strongest military in the world, being the most successful, leading capitalism - will be able to do the most damage by bad actors manipulating towards war and violence.

So shut the ff up about Erdogan. Its not the fault of Turkish citizens.

I didn't say anything about Erdogan - however, "two wrongs don't make a right."

And to add - indeed it's not the fault of the Turkish citizens who are against the tyranny, and those are who we need to align with and help support. Likewise, the US needs support from the world to help counter the bad actors we have here. Or we can all just be angry at "everyone" and rage against innocent people - and watch the whole world burn.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#100

Post by poilcn »

dsign wrote: post #78
beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

This is actually a really good idea. And there are tons of space for this: Sahara, Gobi, Siberia, Northern Canada, the central part of Australia, Antarctica, quite a few places in South America, etc. etc. Economic prosperity is about institutions and their "source code". For a world afflicted with so many problems, it's just insane that we have got no way to try out blank-slate constitutions.

People who live in these countries and specifically the places to decide whether they need these "neighbors" on their upkeep. If you want to help them, why won't you take them in your own house, not send to some god forgotten place far away from you and force others to pay for your vanity?
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