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UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

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Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#41

Post by sahinabi »

remarkEon wrote: post #29
pi-victor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because: a) Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. b) Largest army in Europe. c) Erdogan still has to restrain himself because he has treaties with NATO allies. Otherwise we might get a second unhinged Putin. That would cause a real headache for the EU that tries to stop immigrants from reaching its borders by millions.

>Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. If this were true why do ME refugees not want to stay there? >Largest army in Europe. Okay, but if they're more culturally similar to the ME, as your first point implies, than to e.g. Germany doesn't it become a little problematic for employing this army in NATO's current theater of operations? >Erdogan s…

>If this were true why do ME refugees not want to stay there?

In Europe, west of it, they could earn much more. They don't want to go Romania either for example.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#42

Post by delfinom »

brosinante wrote: post #24
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the /s. Last refugee crisis destroyed any future plans for expansion of the Schengen zone, helped Brexit and propell right wing parties at elections in EU member states and also further distance the southern states from the north as they were left to deal with the crisis alone. Edit: I'm not blaming the refugees, I'm highlighting that if Europe was so united as you suggest we wouldn't be having these issue…

Or, a bunch of wealthy lads looking to get even wealthier teamed up with a bunch of xenophobes and racists with friends in the publishing industry to scam the entire UK. Depends on your point of view I guess.

Lol, wealthy lads want cheap labor for their factories not expensive.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#43

Post by zwieback »

supahfly_remix wrote: post #23
zwieback wrote: post #21

How do Europeans feel about the Kurds these days? When I was growing up in Germany in the 70s and 80s they weren't super popular but I'm guessing with Turkey turning to fundamentalism the attitudes have changed?

Why would Germans have had an opinion at all on Kurds? Were there a number that immigrated there in the 70s or earlier?

Mainly because there are so many Turkish workers in Germany and they were in-fighting with the Kurds way back when, some of it spilled over and there was some violence in Germany.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#44

Post by saiya-jin »

zwieback wrote: post #21

How do Europeans feel about the Kurds these days? When I was growing up in Germany in the 70s and 80s they weren't super popular but I'm guessing with Turkey turning to fundamentalism the attitudes have changed?

I don't have any personal Kurdish friends, but generally I see a lot of sympathy for the fighting spirit they showed in past years against strong enemies and also perceived 'fairness' of their struggle (I mean they fought ISIS, they face turkish army and Turkey is evil player these days).

This covers fight in Syria, and Iraq. The stuff they did/do within Turkey is I think more complicated but I don't feel I know enough to judge.

Yet another reminder of how old colonialism was properly evil force and how it fucked up the world for centuries when state lines were drawn by clueless and/or evil politicians.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#45

Post by ThinkBeat »

ericras wrote: post #13

That's not a very good threat. Diversity is Europe's strength and they will be welcome with open arms!

um no. The previous immigration crisis proved something rather different.

Individuals might feel that way but governments are happy to have then detained in Turkey.

Even Sweden would probably not open up for so many refugees and several Eastern European countries refuse any. (EU might be able to force them).

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#46

Post by soganess »

remarkEon wrote: post #29
pi-victor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because: a) Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. b) Largest army in Europe. c) Erdogan still has to restrain himself because he has treaties with NATO allies. Otherwise we might get a second unhinged Putin. That would cause a real headache for the EU that tries to stop immigrants from reaching its borders by millions.

>Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. If this were true why do ME refugees not want to stay there? >Largest army in Europe. Okay, but if they're more culturally similar to the ME, as your first point implies, than to e.g. Germany doesn't it become a little problematic for employing this army in NATO's current theater of operations? >Erdogan s…

They do, Turkey took in a share of Syrian refugees and really that can't be underplayed.

But to answer your question, Erdogan not the coolest dude ever. Plus Turkey doesn't have the greatest history of human rights especially if you aren't Turkic in ethnicity. Just ask the Armenians, Greeks and Kurds(very much related to this issue). All of which happened in the last 100 years.

In short, if you are getting displaced why not go the extra distance? Just because you've been violently displaced from your home (and everything you know) doesn't mean you can't have upward mobility ::eyeroll::.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#47

Post by aivisol »

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

> All refugees coming to EU are directed to these charter cities.

This seems to be problematic IMHO. Who would want to go there instead of already build, well run city. Would you?

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#48

Post by bognition »

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

So projects as cities then?

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#49

Post by throwaway5752 »

remarkEon wrote: post #5

Why is Turkey in NATO? At this point Their behavior is nothing but antagonistic at best and downright nefarious at worst.

Because it's the least worse outcome (Nash equilibrium sense). Geopolitics don't work on feelings, they work on game theory.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#50

Post by ghostpepper »

sahinabi wrote: post #33
remarkEon wrote: post #5

Why is Turkey in NATO? At this point Their behavior is nothing but antagonistic at best and downright nefarious at worst.

Take a look at the number of Syrian refugees each country hosts, compare it to their population and GDP if you feel like it. Turkey have many problems dealing with its minorities, neighbours, even its own citizens, sure - but on this issue, maybe its time to get off your high horse, before calling any country nefarious. Are we really worse than Spain, worse than France, worse than UK? Why do they have a say in it wit…

What about buying billions of dollars of weapons from Russia? Does that qualify as grounds for expulsion from NATO?
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